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Post by swurveman on Jun 16, 2016 7:08:26 GMT -6
I'm just curious who still uses a hardware reverb (Lexicon/Bricasti/Quantec/TC/Eventide etc) and how many people sold theirs and are strictly using plugins. I'm also interested-for those who sold their hardware and are itb with reverb- how much -if any- quality you've lost by going itb and how much of it was a price decision?
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Post by svart on Jun 16, 2016 7:43:36 GMT -6
I started with hardware in the late 90's, caught the "plugins are just like the real thing but super cheap" bug for a couple years in the early 2000's, then went back to hardware once I realized my mistake. Been predominantly hardware ever since. I'll use plugs for special effects or for background things once I run out of hardware options.
I primarily went to plugs because of all the fanfare on the site-that-shall-not-be-named for certain plugs of the time. Not necessarily for cost savings, but for the supposed functionality and ability to customize, and the "increased realism"..
I went back to hardware due to the lack of ability to patch the effects in novel ways, the latency (even with latency compensation on), incredible increase in CPU and memory load, and finally the distinct lack of delivery on the "increased realism" marketing.
Overall, I found that going ITB slowed me down so much while I spent time clicking things, trying to type in numbers, clicking, retyping something I messed up, clicking and pulling faders and twisting virtual knobs over dozens of tracks, that it probably added 30-50% more time to my work.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jun 16, 2016 8:08:12 GMT -6
Hardware Hardware and more hardware here,although the slate bundle for $25 a month with the LX480 is looking better and better!
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Post by swurveman on Jun 16, 2016 8:11:11 GMT -6
I started with hardware in the late 90's, caught the "plugins are just like the real thing but super cheap" bug for a couple years in the early 2000's, then went back to hardware once I realized my mistake. Been predominantly hardware ever since. I'll use plugs for special effects or for background things once I run out of hardware options. I primarily went to plugs because of all the fanfare on the site-that-shall-not-be-named for certain plugs of the time. Not necessarily for cost savings, but for the supposed functionality and ability to customize, and the "increased realism".. I went back to hardware due to the lack of ability to patch the effects in novel ways, the latency (even with latency compensation on), incredible increase in CPU and memory load, and finally the distinct lack of delivery on the "increased realism" marketing. Overall, I found that going ITB slowed me down so much while I spent time clicking things, trying to type in numbers, clicking, retyping something I messed up, clicking and pulling faders and twisting virtual knobs over dozens of tracks, that it probably added 30-50% more time to my work. Thanks svart. What hardware reverb(s) are you using?
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Post by swurveman on Jun 16, 2016 8:11:40 GMT -6
Hardware Hardware and more hardware here,although the slate bundle for $25 a month with the LX480 is looking better and better! Thanks eric.Which hardware?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 16, 2016 8:14:40 GMT -6
Hardware Hardware and more hardware here,although the slate bundle for $25 a month with the LX480 is looking better and better! Thanks eric.Which hardware? Lexicon 300 TC m2000 Yamaha Pro3r Yamaha spx990
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Post by svart on Jun 16, 2016 9:04:17 GMT -6
I started with hardware in the late 90's, caught the "plugins are just like the real thing but super cheap" bug for a couple years in the early 2000's, then went back to hardware once I realized my mistake. Been predominantly hardware ever since. I'll use plugs for special effects or for background things once I run out of hardware options. I primarily went to plugs because of all the fanfare on the site-that-shall-not-be-named for certain plugs of the time. Not necessarily for cost savings, but for the supposed functionality and ability to customize, and the "increased realism".. I went back to hardware due to the lack of ability to patch the effects in novel ways, the latency (even with latency compensation on), incredible increase in CPU and memory load, and finally the distinct lack of delivery on the "increased realism" marketing. Overall, I found that going ITB slowed me down so much while I spent time clicking things, trying to type in numbers, clicking, retyping something I messed up, clicking and pulling faders and twisting virtual knobs over dozens of tracks, that it probably added 30-50% more time to my work. Thanks svart. What hardware reverb(s) are you using? PCM80 LXP15 TC M-One (x3)
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 16, 2016 9:44:30 GMT -6
All my plug in's have XLR's or TRS jacks.
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Post by popmann on Jun 16, 2016 9:51:17 GMT -6
I sold my hardware FX with the majority of the mix rig over the last year or so. Different plan for the "back nine studio"....small. Less is better. While the plug ins are NOT 100% equal, I also don't care much. I finally found how to set Cubase's IR to accept an actual stereo input matrix, so I can pan INTO the reverb....all I was missing. There IS a nicer 3rd dimension to (some) hardware. But, if I'm no longer mixing for tracks I don't track....I'm OK with that "hit"...."building" a drum room is no longer needed--room mic samples can be added quicker and sound better. The biggest hesitation in selling them wasn't so much the sound quality as it meant I wasn't going back to the all analog mixing set up....but, again--see back nine footprint, I'm just not. Feel free to check my fader up....it has my default three FX auxes I've used for 25 years, only now they're software....long reverb, med/short reverb, stereo (usually tape) delay. realgearonline.com/thread/5546/fader-cover-test-new-compressorIt's a different system....better replication of input than older system, so I lean into that....less trying to make ear candy via knob twirling.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 16, 2016 10:23:19 GMT -6
Sacrilege. My hardware reverbs are an Ecoplate I and an Ecoplate III. They are pretty great. They are combined with various Space Echo/Deltalab/ART/etc for pre-delay, depending on need. They only seem to get used during tracking for live reverb. Tracking duration, rough mixes, and recalls make using them consistently a real pain, so to keep the clients happy with a lack of unexpected change or variation, software tends to end up on the finals unless it really is a low budget quickie. I suppose I could print the plates returns to some tracks so they'd play back the same, but then I'd have to reprint them for any significant processing changes down the line. If the reverb needs to be predominate over the dry, which is rare, the plates win hands down and are used, probably printed. Way back then, then plates replaced my digital hardware boxes which were all sold off. Except the Quadraverb2 (hadn't used it in a decade+) that's been pulled out, tested, and listed in the classifieds!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 16, 2016 10:34:14 GMT -6
Sacrilege. My hardware reverbs are an Ecoplate I and an Ecoplate III. They are pretty great. They are combined with various Space Echo/Deltalab/ART/etc for pre-delay, depending on need. They only seem to get used during tracking for live reverb. Tracking duration, rough mixes, and recalls make using them consistently a real pain, so to keep the clients happy with a lack of unexpected change or variation, software tends to end up on the finals unless it really is a low budget quickie. I suppose I could print the plates returns to some tracks so they'd play back the same, but then I'd have to reprint them for any significant processing changes down the line. If the reverb needs to be predominate over the dry, which is rare, the plates win hands down and are used, probably printed. Way back then, then plates replaced my digital hardware boxes which were all sold off. Except the Quadraverb2 (hadn't used it in a decade+) that's been pulled out, tested, and listed in the classifieds! I would love the space for a plate no less a plate!
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Post by swurveman on Jun 16, 2016 11:08:57 GMT -6
I suppose I could print the plates returns to some tracks so they'd play back the same, but then I'd have to reprint them for any significant processing changes down the line. I always wondered about this as I have the same problem here wondering if/when I should bounce with my Bricasti, and it takes a long time to bounce in real time. This is one of the reasons I'm looking at multiple reverbs so that I can tweak when necessary and then do one bounce with everything else at mixdown time.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 16, 2016 11:16:16 GMT -6
Yeah, sometimes you can predict that dynamics/EQ are set for good, sometimes you can't. If the reverb is getting a blend or inputs, that's probably going to change, then you're printing again.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 16, 2016 11:21:23 GMT -6
I sold my hardware FX with the majority of the mix rig over the last year or so. Different plan for the "back nine studio"....small. Less is better. While the plug ins are NOT 100% equal, I also don't care much. I finally found how to set Cubase's IR to accept an actual stereo input matrix, so I can pan INTO the reverb....all I was missing. There IS a nicer 3rd dimension to (some) hardware. But, if I'm no longer mixing for tracks I don't track....I'm OK with that "hit"...."building" a drum room is no longer needed--room mic samples can be added quicker and sound better. The biggest hesitation in selling them wasn't so much the sound quality as it meant I wasn't going back to the all analog mixing set up....but, again--see back nine footprint, I'm just not. Feel free to check my fader up....it has my default three FX auxes I've used for 25 years, only now they're software....long reverb, med/short reverb, stereo (usually tape) delay. realgearonline.com/thread/5546/fader-cover-test-new-compressorIt's a different system....better replication of input than older system, so I lean into that....less trying to make ear candy via knob twirling. Thanks. Nice remake. I hadn't heard that Jackson Browne song before. What reverb did you use on your vocal? I can get close to the sound on the original song with one of my Bricasti plates.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 16, 2016 11:22:18 GMT -6
I have just never bothered with HW reverbs...not sure I want to go down that expensive rabbit hole.
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Post by popmann on Jun 16, 2016 11:37:57 GMT -6
Feel free to check my fader up....it has my default three FX auxes I've used for 25 years, only now they're software....long reverb, med/short reverb, stereo (usually tape) delay. realgearonline.com/thread/5546/fader-cover-test-new-compressorIt's a different system....better replication of input than older system, so I lean into that....less trying to make ear candy via knob twirling. Thanks. Nice remake. I hadn't heard that Jackson Browne song before. What reverb did you use on your vocal? I can get close to the sound on the original song with one of my Bricasti plates. Both reverbs are built in Cubase. Vocal being "Plate at 2sec" and the room being some "LA Studio" or something. The "studio" one just modified to use a true stereo input matrix.
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Post by 79sg on Jun 16, 2016 11:43:51 GMT -6
For whatever it's worth, I find Exponential Audio's reverbs to be as close to HW reverbs that I've used ITB. They seem to become part of the source like many HW reverbs I use / used over the years.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 16, 2016 12:30:34 GMT -6
I have just never bothered with HW reverbs...not sure I want to go down that expensive rabbit hole. Rent a Bricasti for a mix and tell us how much you miss it when it's returned. Somethings in life are worth paying for. Vapor, not for me. M7, and a full rack of various Lexicons does more than any PC can. Try it, you might like it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 16, 2016 13:12:30 GMT -6
That's exactly why I don't rent it...lol
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 16, 2016 13:21:31 GMT -6
I have just never bothered with HW reverbs...not sure I want to go down that expensive rabbit hole. Rent a Bricasti for a mix and tell us how much you miss it when it's returned. Somethings in life are worth paying for. Vapor, not for me. M7, and a full rack of various Lexicons does more than any PC can. Try it, you might like it. Hey Jim, got anything we can hear that you ran with the Bricasti?
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 16, 2016 13:24:39 GMT -6
I have just never bothered with HW reverbs...not sure I want to go down that expensive rabbit hole. Rent a Bricasti for a mix and tell us how much you miss it when it's returned. Somethings in life are worth paying for. Vapor, not for me. M7, and a full rack of various Lexicons does more than any PC can. Try it, you might like it. A good and funny one. I think some plug ins are not bad - I would miss them too.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 16, 2016 15:14:13 GMT -6
I think EQ and Reverb were the first two major casualties for me when I went ITB. The software can just get so close, especially for the digital reverb algorithms. I happen to love analog reverb, however, so I have a spring unit and a few guitar pedals. I have no high end hardware EQ, although I hope to address that just to see what happens.
The best workflow for me is to get as many sounds as possible on the way in during tracking. And then mix mostly with plugins. I still love the hardware compressors though, I have a rack full of them.
I feel like a hypocrite though because I prefer my hardware digital synthesizers over their ITB equivalents, just so much more mojo. I wonder if I had a Bricasti or something I would change my tune. I wonder if hardware EQ will make me thing differently about my software EQ's. The computer is just such a monster these days it's hard to not want to use it. The computer feels happier and more social though when you surround it with piles of gear and mood lighting, so it's good to keep the computer happy.
I guess reverb has never been a major obsession for me, even though I use it all the time. It's more of a nuts-and-bolts thing for me, so plugins are plenty adequate. I'll get more geeky over preamps, compressors, digital analog conversion, all day long. Give me some modern plugins and some character boxes and I'm quite chuffed to record anything. Digital reverb has been an artificial sound always, so I'm not terribly concerned if it's "even more artificial." I'll add some analog funk with some other processor. Usually the reverb is sitting in the backround anyway so it's not the main focus of the mix.
The reason I would buy a hardware reverb is that it has no software equivalent, that it is functionally different from what's inside the computer. That's my favorite thing about Real Gear anyway, that it's unique and has its own sound. Joe Barresi talks about this a lot and I love his sounds. Total hardware fetish.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 16, 2016 15:32:15 GMT -6
Our verbs are mostly a Lexicon 480L for hardware and Valhalla plates ITB. Would love a real plate but trying to find a dead quiet space big enough to put it is easier said than done.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 16, 2016 16:20:03 GMT -6
I don't have anything approaching a dead quiet space, and it's really not a problem for the plates. The small one is in the control room against the wall, and it startles clients on the couch. Outside automotive rumble is a much larger problem with microphones than it is with these plates.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 16, 2016 16:23:12 GMT -6
Rent a Bricasti for a mix and tell us how much you miss it when it's returned. Somethings in life are worth paying for. Vapor, not for me. M7, and a full rack of various Lexicons does more than any PC can. Try it, you might like it. Hey Jim, got anything we can hear that you ran with the Bricasti? I do. I could do an isolated vocals mix with a Bricasti Bright Plate if people want to hear it. The Bright Plate is an example of a Lexicon 480 Bricasti preset.
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