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Post by rowmat on Jun 2, 2016 20:55:49 GMT -6
As we record a lot of acoustic instruments I've been considering one high end, no compromise multi-channel preamp that will be our "go to" preamp mainly for use with KM84's and KM54's on acoustic guitars, dobros, mandolins, banjos etc.
I am yet to hear a bad word about the NPNG but am open to other suggestions.
Fire away!
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Post by tasteliketape on Jun 2, 2016 21:01:17 GMT -6
I haven't heard it but I would really like to try the Pueblo Audio pre I've read it's in the same ballpark as the NPNG there a thread on this site about it .
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Post by EmRR on Jun 2, 2016 21:35:05 GMT -6
Gordon?
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Post by LesC on Jun 2, 2016 21:36:55 GMT -6
The three pre's I would love to hear a comparison of are the NPNG, the Pueblo, and the RTZ. Reviews of any of these by owners are glowing, and it seems once they get one of these, they don't bother comparing to anything else. So we probably won't see any such comparisons, I guess that says something in itself.
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Post by tasteliketape on Jun 2, 2016 21:56:02 GMT -6
The RTZ is a neveish pre and it's great but I wouldn't put with Gordon,NPNG , Pueblo it's just a different type (flavor) than those
I'd like to have all of them the but the pueblo is my next pre then RTZ
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Post by Ward on Jun 2, 2016 22:13:14 GMT -6
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Post by Ward on Jun 2, 2016 22:15:44 GMT -6
The RTZ is a neveish pre and it's great but I wouldn't put with Gordon,NPNG , Pueblo it's just a different type (flavor) than those I'd like to have all of them the but the pueblo is my next pre then RTZ The cleanest of the high end microphone preamps is arguably the Grace M101 through M801 series. The channel strip is not quite as clean in real world usage but very close. TO maintain pristine low distortion and low noise values, their M101 pre pairs nicely with their M102 compressor . . . but use very little of it! Like all VCA type architectures, it squishes in an unpleasant way rather quickly. But the pre? Transparent, silent and clean as it gets. |
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Post by EmRR on Jun 2, 2016 22:26:35 GMT -6
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Post by tasteliketape on Jun 2, 2016 22:32:45 GMT -6
Also heard the Jim Williams audio upgrade pre is clean and fast
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Post by rowmat on Jun 2, 2016 23:02:11 GMT -6
Thanks so far for the suggestions.
Our current clean preamps include...
AEA RPQ (2 Channel 1RU version)
Seventh Circle Audio C84's (Millenia clone)
Seventh Circle Audio J99's (John Hardy Twin Servo clone fitted with Sonic Imagery DOA's)
Sebatron Axis 200VU Tube Pre (Clean on the low drive setting)
Neotek Elite Console Pre's (Console soon to be installed)
The Hardy and Millenia flavours are pretty well already covered by our C84's and J99's so I'm leaving them off the 'to buy' list.
Not too sure about the Grace as it seems to regularly be regarded as being somewhat clinical and maybe too close to a Millenia sonically? (No direct experience however - just conjecture!)
The KM54 is a great test for pre's due to its incredible detail.
It takes a pretty decent pre to capture all the KM54's delicate detail while keeping it sweet.
However no matter how clean the pre, if it is the slightest bit clinical or hard it can began to push a KM54 a little into KM184 territory.
I recorded some mandolin yesterday using the KM54 through the AEA RPQ and it did sound pretty good.
I'm just wondering if I'm splitting hairs too much if I was to get a NPNG or something else?
Both the Gordon and Pueblo do seem to get regularly mentioned in the same sentence along with the NPNG.
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Post by Randge on Jun 2, 2016 23:24:40 GMT -6
The RTZ is a neveish pre and it's great but I wouldn't put with Gordon,NPNG , Pueblo it's just a different type (flavor) than those I'd like to have all of them the but the pueblo is my next pre then RTZ I have tried all of those and chose the RTZ in the end. I was buying 12 channels to be able to track a large drum kit or full acoustic band with matching preamps if that was what I desired. I felt the RTZ's had the more solid, warm but clear bottom of all of them and they are far more affordable than the others. The top end were all quite similar actually. Gordon is only a couple of miles from me here in Nashville and his work is very nice and true craftsmanship through and through. At $1,600/channel, I was able to get what I felt was the same level of audio quality and have 2 channels of RTZ. My take on the Pueblo might be skewed a bit, as I was recording a less than stellar player with it when I was able to try it out. I didn't really care for not having an input and output personally. The NPNG is also a nice preamp that you really aren't going wrong by purchasing. I felt it was a lot like the Mastering Labs preamps, which sound a bit too sterile for what I desire. When I was at Gary Paczosa's studio a while back, we shot his Mastering Labs preamps out with the 500 series 9762A RTZ's. He seemed pretty impressed (with the RTZ's) and picked one up shortly after that. From the sounds of it, it was used quite a bit on the new Sarah Jaroz and Dwight Yoakam records they have been making recently. Another name I'll throw in the hat for acoustic stuff is the Forssell SMP-2. Those preamps really sound great and I can record about anything with them and be smiling. I love their super clear top end that doesn't ever sound hard and clangy. They are my go to's for percussion. With decent mic placement, I rarely have to do much tonally besides HPF at mix time. Usually, a modest amount of smooth compression controlling peaks and I'm happy. For an all around workhorse that does ALL acoustic instruments well, The Great River MP-2NV is another I feel like I gotta mention. Having a preamp that can record a bright banjo and also track an upright bass and give a true focus to their frequency registers is a feat few preamps can do to perfection. Many many records I've made have them paired with my Telefunken V-72's on the entire record when I first started out. Solid as a rock and going on 15 years of service without as much as a single issue, too. Speaking of service, that is another big thing for me to be able to call RTZ, Forssell and Great River and get the most amazing customer service imaginable. Kudos to such fantastically ran companies. That kind of service is becoming more and more scarce. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 3, 2016 5:01:12 GMT -6
The RTZ is a neveish pre and it's great but I wouldn't put with Gordon,NPNG , Pueblo it's just a different type (flavor) than those I'd like to have all of them the but the pueblo is my next pre then RTZ The cleanest of the high end microphone preamps is arguably the Grace M101 through M801 series. The channel strip is not quite as clean in real world usage but very close. TO maintain pristine low distortion and low noise values, their M101 pre pairs nicely with their M102 compressor . . . but use very little of it! Like all VCA type architectures, it squishes in an unpleasant way rather quickly. But the pre? Transparent, silent and clean as it gets. +1 on the Grace. Really nice clean pre that you can grab for low bucks used. |
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Post by svart on Jun 3, 2016 7:11:55 GMT -6
Grace is largely considered the cleanest. I'd say that the SSL9K is extremely clean. It's a little soft in the high end, but clean for days. Could be a good match for overly transient-rich acoustics.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 3, 2016 7:31:15 GMT -6
Grace is largely considered the cleanest. I'd say that the SSL9K is extremely clean. It's a little soft in the high end, but clean for days. Could be a good match for overly transient-rich acoustics. Years ago, I did a shootout with a bunch of different preamps. Hearing a Grace side by side with a Neve is a funny thing. |
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 3, 2016 9:03:19 GMT -6
One of those does 1.5 ppm IMD. I'll let you all guess which one.
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Post by Ward on Jun 3, 2016 9:10:44 GMT -6
Tough crowd. Bet you didn't like my Roger Daltry joke either. |
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 3, 2016 9:13:21 GMT -6
Sure does depend on how you're going to want your acoustics to sound.... either you want them to be a little slurred or you want them super intricate and detailed. If you like it relaxed the RTZ 9762 is a killer two channel with a really rich and open sound. I like the Forsell's if you want a little quicker, clear and detailed.
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Post by sean on Jun 3, 2016 9:13:30 GMT -6
Haven't heard Jim's preamps in person, but of the "clean" transformerless preamps I've used or owned (GML, Millennia, Grace, AEA) the GML and AEA have been my favorite. I have a 4 channel GML that I use when I want lots of transients to come through. Really great on mandolin. They have a little something special going on in the top end. A bit of sparkle. The AEA RPQ (Fossell design) I bought to use with my AEA R88 and they've been a nice pair, they've been married to drum overheads. I like having the hi pass filter and high shelf on the RPQ.
The NPNG are on my short list to try. They have output transformers, can't think of anything off the top of my head that has a transformerless input but transformer output besides the Daking Mic Pre One.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 3, 2016 9:17:33 GMT -6
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Post by c0rtland on Jun 3, 2016 13:30:21 GMT -6
I'm thinking about two channels Gordon or two npng's myself. I need to hear them though. And then there is the dacs. Ugh too many choices. We live in blessed times.
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Post by Randge on Jun 3, 2016 15:45:00 GMT -6
My True Systems are about the most straight wire pre's I have. Does anyone else here have any? My RPQ 500's do have a lot of sculpting power and have a very different sound than my Forssell's even though Fred Forssell designed both.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 4, 2016 2:50:12 GMT -6
If anyone has a NGNP versus AEA RPQ comparison they'd like to share I'm all ears!
And not just with ribbons even though the RPQ is touted as a ribbon pre.
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Post by ulriggribbons on Jun 4, 2016 14:38:44 GMT -6
I'd throw my Si4 mic pre into the mix. Big sound stage, and clean but not boring.
here it is on vocals
Regards
Jon
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Post by plinker on Jun 5, 2016 13:57:51 GMT -6
Nice trax, Jon. Vocals sound smooth and detailed. What mic? I'd throw my Si4 mic pre into the mix. Big sound stage, and clean but not boring. here it is on vocals Regards Jon |
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Post by ulriggribbons on Jun 5, 2016 15:26:23 GMT -6
I believe that's an M49 into the Si mic pre.
Regards
Jon
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