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Post by levon on Jun 2, 2016 2:16:20 GMT -6
Well, it had to happen sooner or later. Musicians refuse to create new music because it will be stolen anyway and they won't get paid. Roger Daltrey Refuses to Record Since the Internet ‘Stole’ the Music BusinessDon’t expect to hear a new full-length album from Roger Daltrey or the Who anytime soon.
Daltrey scoffed at the idea of releasing new music during a recent interview with Rolling Stone, admitting that although he and his fellow Who survivor Pete Townshend have “talked about” making another album, he no longer sees the point.
“There’s no record industry anymore. Why would I make a record?” Daltrey wondered. “I would have to pay to make a record. There’s no royalties, so I can’t see that ever happening. There’s no record business. How do you get the money to make the records? I don’t know. I’m certainly not going to pay money to give my music away free. I can’t afford to do that. I’ve got other things I could waste the money on.”
Obviously, Daltrey isn’t opposed to giving things away — as evidenced by the fact that he was speaking with Rolling Stone about a benefit concert for his and Townshend’s Teen Cancer America organization — but there’s a difference between charity and stealing, he says. As far as Daltrey’s concerned, the advent of the internet has led to the wholesale theft of the entire music business.
“The way the internet has come about has been the biggest robbery in history, like musicians should work for nothing,” he argued. “You get paid for streaming, my ass. There’s no control. Musicians are getting robbed every day. And now it’s creeping into film and television, everything now. You notice, the internet is a slowly but surely destructive thing in all ways. I don’t think it’s improved people’s lives. It’s just made them do more work and feel like they’re wanted a bit more, but it’s all bollocks.”
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Post by rowmat on Jun 2, 2016 2:31:59 GMT -6
The Bollocks? Never mind! - The Sex Pistols
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Post by keymod on Jun 2, 2016 2:41:04 GMT -6
sad.
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 2, 2016 5:41:19 GMT -6
While stealing is certainly a HUGE problem with music, as evidenced by my 48 cents I've made in streams this year, the other thing that's killed the music industry's record machine is saturation.
In roger daltrey's heyday, there were big labels and a few smaller labels. Then their kids came along, and created indie labels. From my understanding, the indie labels were used a lot of times as a "minor leagues" and still are. That's a good thing, as it allowed someone else to do the dirty work. But now you're competing for everyone's favorite band. An arms race, as it has been called. Come the internet, and now you don't even need a label to sell a cd to someone outside of your town. Even Best Buy would sell your album if you submitted a form. I sold and purchased cd's through mp3.com before napster came around. Hoarding music illegally is certainly a problem, but so is the issue of saturation. 1 in a million bands "make it", but now you can hear all 1 million, if you wanted to.
If 5 people said "hey, can you listen to one song and pick your favorite" you'll say "sure". If 500 people come up to you and say "hey, can you listen to one song and pick your favorite" you'll say "I don't have time for that."
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Post by Ward on Jun 2, 2016 11:05:05 GMT -6
It;s possible that these inter webs might be in for some global regulation in the coming years.
until then, I completely agree with Mr. Daltry.
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 2, 2016 11:21:33 GMT -6
My wife and I just got Amazon Prime for the kids and us to hire films occasionally.
We also have Spotify.
I noticed really quickly that virtually every old film such as the 1970's Silent Running etc etc still have a high rent value of £7.99! Even old kids shows from the 1970's like "The Flowpot men" are £44.95 for just one season. The f**king Flowerpot men!!!!!
However for £10 per month on Spotify I can virtually listen to every song ever recorded endlessly free except for the £10 membership (remember Amazon Prime has a yearly membership fee)
So even legitimate streaming channels are in my mind essentially devaluing music to the point of worthless.
Were as the film industry seem to have been clever enough to have maintained the intrinsic value in the visual mediums. Maybe because a few local actors can't get together and make their own "Hollywood Blockbuster"?
I make music these days for the pleasure of making music, as music is my lifelong passion, but I have to agree with Mr Daltrey, the industry as a working market has collapsed.
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Post by winetree on Jun 2, 2016 12:49:59 GMT -6
In the old days you had to buy an album or tape to get the music. You could make a copy to a tape based format, but the transfer was not as good as the original. Then came digital. You could copy a C.D. to tape, but with sonic loss. Then came the D.A.T. machine. You could make a digital copy from C.D. to D.A.T. but you'd spend more on the D.A.T. tape than buying another C.D. Sony tried to stop the C.D. to D.A.T. copying but failed. Then the industry tried to stop digital copying with "Copy Code". Notching out a certain frequency, that could be detected and stopped generation copying. It only allowed copying from the original and not from a copy. Industry professionals claimed they could hear the missing frequency and that ended that. Once that happened, music was free to copy and distribute, and the free for all began. Computers and digital has taken away a lot of jobs and money out of a lot of pockets. That's progress???
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Post by scumbum on Jun 2, 2016 13:46:36 GMT -6
That was an awesome interview !!!
I completely agree that we were better off before the internet . I think the internet sucks , it only kills jobs and is a complete waste of time . I really hate it .
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jun 2, 2016 14:03:52 GMT -6
Here's an interesting thought. Is the collapse of the music industry going to turn all of the gear and instrument manufacturers into "musical toy companies"? Since folks can't make money doing music full time, all of those instruments expensive instruments they churn out (the new minimoog for example) will be sold to folks who have regular 9-5 jobs and only play on the weekend.
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Post by popmann on Jun 2, 2016 17:14:14 GMT -6
They already are.
I coined the term "New Market Engineers" to describe the people gear is now mostly being made to sell to....they are people who have little to no experience recording prior to computer based software DAWs. They have always had virtually unlimited EQ, compression, reverbs--whatever, thus they use them in completely different ways. They are both full time musicians who are no longer paying for studio time, since the recording is now just an ad for live and to drive "buzz"....or they're people who've never hired a real studio at ALL....there are plenty of people who are actually hanging shingles who've never worked in a traditional studio....anyway--it's not intended to be derogatory, it simply is what it is--what THEY want, and how things are sold to THEM, is very very different from how you sold to engineers of the past.
I coined it, because I was flabbergasted at what was being sold. Including things that were literally WORSE than older professional machines they "replaced"---but the NMEs have never USED said machines. As long as you improve on their Delta1010 or whatever....their Waves RenVerb....they buy the new awesome widget. We stopped collectively using Moore's Law to actually sound better from an audio recording/mixing perspective....and started using it to "create music".
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 2, 2016 17:43:38 GMT -6
Here's an interesting thought. Is the collapse of the music industry going to turn all of the gear and instrument manufacturers into "musical toy companies"? Since folks can't make money doing music full time, all of those instruments expensive instruments they churn out (the new minimoog for example) will be sold to folks who have regular 9-5 jobs and only play on the weekend. I know some numbers because I have some friends in distribution from the times I was a Walden endorser in Germany. In the last 3 years they sold 30% lesser real instruments and do try to fill the gap with distribution of computer music tools, which go up. If I rember right they talked a long time to get Avid..... cant remember if it worked. If the professionals stop doing music this industry is the next one that will go down the drain. I am not kidding you - I did try to explain this to thier inter trade organization here in Germany. They do not see it yet. They believe they will survive without professionals. I say no hobbyist is going to buy Altiverb, or an 1176 and so on. My guesswork was that they may want to unite with us to put preassure on the government to change the laws. But hell no, they think it wont hurt them.... it will.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 2, 2016 17:55:50 GMT -6
Here's an interesting thought. Is the collapse of the music industry going to turn all of the gear and instrument manufacturers into "musical toy companies"? Since folks can't make money doing music full time, all of those instruments expensive instruments they churn out (the new minimoog for example) will be sold to folks who have regular 9-5 jobs and only play on the weekend. I know some numbers because I have some friends in distribution from the times I was a Walden endorser in Germany. In the last 3 years they sold 30% lesser real instruments and do try to fill the gap with distribution of computer music tools, which go up. If I rember right they talked a long time to get Avid..... cant remember if it worked. If the professionals stop doing music this industry is the next one that will go down the drain. I am not kidding you - I did try to explain this to thier inter trade organization here in Germany. They do not see it yet. They believe they will survive without professionals. I say no hobbyist is going to buy Altiverb, or an 1176 and so on. My guesswork was that they may want to unite with us to put preassure on the government to change the laws. But hell no, they think it wont hurt them.... it will. I know at least one " hobbiest" on here with a pair of Mohogs, a custom Drip built la 2 a Flea 47 km84 and ATC Scm20s plus more! The high end hobby market means something very important to the industry MARGAIN ! That's where the profit is. Plus all those new Gibsons going to Japan are not just going to collectors! At this point my understanding that the pro audio biz including live and big installs is about 60% hobby 40% pro again the profit is in the hobby market!
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 2, 2016 18:17:55 GMT -6
I know some numbers because I have some friends in distribution from the times I was a Walden endorser in Germany. In the last 3 years they sold 30% lesser real instruments and do try to fill the gap with distribution of computer music tools, which go up. If I rember right they talked a long time to get Avid..... cant remember if it worked. If the professionals stop doing music this industry is the next one that will go down the drain. I am not kidding you - I did try to explain this to thier inter trade organization here in Germany. They do not see it yet. They believe they will survive without professionals. I say no hobbyist is going to buy Altiverb, or an 1176 and so on. My guesswork was that they may want to unite with us to put preassure on the government to change the laws. But hell no, they think it wont hurt them.... it will. I know at least one " hobbiest" on here with a pair of Mohogs, a custom Drip built la 2 a Flea 47 km84 and ATC Scm20s plus more! The high end hobby market means something very important to the industry MARGAIN ! That's where the profit is. Plus all those new Gibsons going to Japan are not just going to collectors! At this point my understanding that the pro audio biz including live and big installs is about 60% hobby 40% pro again the profit is in the hobby market! You think they can suvive with a loss of 40%. I think you will see factories closeing. We have seen it with studios, and we will see it again. The internet kills jobs and many more things. It is time for regulation....
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 2, 2016 18:58:55 GMT -6
I know at least one " hobbiest" on here with a pair of Mohogs, a custom Drip built la 2 a Flea 47 km84 and ATC Scm20s plus more! The high end hobby market means something very important to the industry MARGAIN ! That's where the profit is. Plus all those new Gibsons going to Japan are not just going to collectors! At this point my understanding that the pro audio biz including live and big installs is about 60% hobby 40% pro again the profit is in the hobby market! You think they can suvive with a loss of 40%. I think you will see factories closeing. We have seen it with studios, and we will see it again. The internet kills jobs and many more things. It is time for regulation.... No we won't see factories closing for 4 reasons 1 the prosumer / hobby market keeps growing. 2 honestly studios have always been tight with their budgets and again the profit is in the hobby part. 3 live, the pro part of the market that is seeing growth is live. 4 Religion, religion of all shapes and sizes is getting into more and more production and more and more complicated worship systems. The recorded music buissness has never been so bad, and yet the Boutique Audio buissness as never been bigger ! It's not a contradiction, it shows that it isn't pros buying the gear!
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 2, 2016 19:42:14 GMT -6
You think they can suvive with a loss of 40%. I think you will see factories closeing. We have seen it with studios, and we will see it again. The internet kills jobs and many more things. It is time for regulation.... No we won't see factories closing for 4 reasons 1 the prosumer / hobby market keeps growing. 2 honestly studios have always been tight with their budgets and again the profit is in the hobby part. 3 live, the pro part of the market that is seeing growth is live. 4 Religion, religion of all shapes and sizes is getting into more and more production and more and more complicated worship systems. The recorded music buissness has never been so bad, and yet the Boutique Audio buissness as never been bigger ! It's not a contradiction, it shows that it isn't pros buying the gear! Future will tell us who is right, if we are still alive...
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Post by gouge on Jun 2, 2016 20:35:01 GMT -6
i'll go out on a limb here and present a view I know is not popular.
it was the music industry that killed the music industry. money hungry corporate businesses that paid nothing back to the artist, took away artists future earnings and made artists sign away their rights whom wreck the music industry.
now we know why daltry makes music. it is purely a commercial venture for him.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jun 2, 2016 20:58:47 GMT -6
now we know why daltry makes music. it is purely a commercial venture for him. Do you mean this guy? If not, who is "Daltry"?
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Post by Ward on Jun 2, 2016 22:11:36 GMT -6
He's also very talented, Chuckerooni, and sells to both secular and Christian markets alike... being that he belongs in both. But the other fellow we're talking about is a very old fart who's well past his prime and has no business even thinking about making records. I mean, whoever heard of a band called the who, who don't even know their own name? Who's going to buy their records? The who? That's who?
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Post by gouge on Jun 3, 2016 2:59:57 GMT -6
now we know why daltry makes music. it is purely a commercial venture for him. Do you mean this guy? If not, who is "Daltry"? Yes who indeed. He's the guy reportedly worth over 65 million dollars with 100k in earning from a record he was involved in during 2014... Life must be tough for daltrey.
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 3, 2016 4:25:44 GMT -6
No we won't see factories closing for 4 reasons 1 the prosumer / hobby market keeps growing. 2 honestly studios have always been tight with their budgets and again the profit is in the hobby part. 3 live, the pro part of the market that is seeing growth is live. 4 Religion, religion of all shapes and sizes is getting into more and more production and more and more complicated worship systems. The recorded music buissness has never been so bad, and yet the Boutique Audio buissness as never been bigger ! It's not a contradiction, it shows that it isn't pros buying the gear! Future will tell us who is right, if we are still alive... In the Gold Rush the people who made money was not the gold prospectors but the companies selling buckets, spades and food to the wanna be rich miners - 99.9% of which never found anything but worthless mud.
Reminds me of the music industry 2016!
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 3, 2016 4:48:32 GMT -6
Future will tell us who is right, if we are still alive... In the Gold Rush the people who made money was not the gold prospectors but the companies selling buckets, spades and food to the wanna be rich miners - 99.9% of which never found anything but worthless mud.
Reminds me of the music industry 2016!
Is that true history? If yes the analogy is perfect...
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 3, 2016 7:30:29 GMT -6
Here's an interesting thought. Is the collapse of the music industry going to turn all of the gear and instrument manufacturers into "musical toy companies"? Since folks can't make money doing music full time, all of those instruments expensive instruments they churn out (the new minimoog for example) will be sold to folks who have regular 9-5 jobs and only play on the weekend.
I play weeknights too, thank you very much. My acoustic karaoke night is very popular with the locals
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 3, 2016 9:10:26 GMT -6
In the Gold Rush the people who made money was not the gold prospectors but the companies selling buckets, spades and food to the wanna be rich miners - 99.9% of which never found anything but worthless mud.
Reminds me of the music industry 2016!
Is that true history? If yes the analogy is perfect... Well I'm not certain about the 99.9% but I remember reading an article that said it was the people supplying the miners with provisions and equipment who made most of the money as only a few hit rich seams of gold.
Put it this way the article made a resonance with me about gear manufactures selling project studio gear to millions of musicians who will never sell more than a handful of records.
What percentage of artists hit a seam of gold, can't even be 0.5%!
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jun 3, 2016 9:28:54 GMT -6
Do you mean this guy? If not, who is "Daltry"? Yes who indeed. He's the guy reportedly worth over 65 million dollars with 100k in earning from a record he was involved in during 2014... Life must be tough for daltrey. I was legitimately asking you who is "Daltrey". and i'm just now seeing his full name in the original link by levon. D'oh!!!
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Post by gouge on Jun 3, 2016 14:39:16 GMT -6
Wow, I thought you were being sarcastic. :-)
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