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Post by gouge on May 18, 2016 2:02:40 GMT -6
I have been contemplating building 2 ribbon mics.
Any ideas on options. There are some diy kits but also could buy a Chinese model and swap things.
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Post by gouge on May 18, 2016 2:05:52 GMT -6
I should add. I have a joly mod short ribbon which wipes the floor with royer when it comes to guitar.
Looking for something diy and long ribbon and extended clean response.
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Post by jfoc on May 18, 2016 6:01:49 GMT -6
A stereo Austin ribbon mic seems like it would be cool www.diyribbonmic.com/A la carte options like xformer upgrades or just getting the ribbon assembly. disclaimer:havent tried one |
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Post by gouge on May 18, 2016 6:18:26 GMT -6
i'd looked at the Austin stuff but with the price it's better to get a jolly modified mic because the finished product will look a little slicker.
however, just checked again after your post and there is a kit for the mxl990 that has me interested. cheers.
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Post by svart on May 18, 2016 6:46:32 GMT -6
The chinese swap is decent enough, however, the build quality and the tolerances aren't nearly as good as something like the Royer.. As for Joly mods rivaling royer.. That has NOT been my experience..
Building a good ribbon isn't as simple as putting a thinner ribbon in a mic. The flux gap needs to be matched to the magnet flux density, and the ribbon thickness needs to be matched to those for proper dampening.
In my experience, adding a thinner ribbon to a large-gap mic like a chinese/Joly ends up extending high end at the expense of low end dampening, making things sound much more blurred in the low mids. Most people mistake this as "beef" or "thickness" but it's just mud.
That's why I prefer Royer to most everything else I've tried, because the *balance* of all these things is *right* for what it is, even though they don't have the artificially extended highs of other ribbons.
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Post by mdmitch2 on May 18, 2016 10:01:08 GMT -6
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Post by mdmitch2 on May 18, 2016 10:02:41 GMT -6
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Post by rowmat on May 18, 2016 15:26:00 GMT -6
i'd looked at the Austin stuff but with the price it's better to get a jolly modified mic because the finished product will look a little slicker. however, just checked again after your post and there is a kit for the mxl990 that has me interested. cheers. The MXL990 is a condenser mic. The Cascade Vinjet is well priced long ribbon that performs pretty well. It is also available with a Lundahl transformer. |
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diy ribbon
May 18, 2016 15:50:04 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by gouge on May 18, 2016 15:50:04 GMT -6
The chinese swap is decent enough, however, the build quality and the tolerances aren't nearly as good as something like the Royer.. As for Joly mods rivaling royer.. That has NOT been my experience.. Building a good ribbon isn't as simple as putting a thinner ribbon in a mic. The flux gap needs to be matched to the magnet flux density, and the ribbon thickness needs to be matched to those for proper dampening. In my experience, adding a thinner ribbon to a large-gap mic like a chinese/Joly ends up extending high end at the expense of low end dampening, making things sound much more blurred in the low mids. Most people mistake this as "beef" or "thickness" but it's just mud. That's why I prefer Royer to most everything else I've tried, because the *balance* of all these things is *right* for what it is, even though they don't have the artificially extended highs of other ribbons. The royer is too bottom heavy for guitars for me because it has a pronounced proximity effect. Something my jolly mic doesn't have. The jolly sounds exactly like the source. Something the royer can't do unless used as a room mic. |
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diy ribbon
May 18, 2016 15:51:11 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by gouge on May 18, 2016 15:51:11 GMT -6
i'd looked at the Austin stuff but with the price it's better to get a jolly modified mic because the finished product will look a little slicker. however, just checked again after your post and there is a kit for the mxl990 that has me interested. cheers. The MXL990 is a condenser mic. The Cascade Vinjet is well priced long ribbon that performs pretty well. It is also available with a Lundahl transformer. Austin do an mxl990 ribbon kit. |
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diy ribbon
May 18, 2016 15:56:09 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by gouge on May 18, 2016 15:56:09 GMT -6
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Post by EmRR on May 18, 2016 20:43:57 GMT -6
I don't know if Mark has room in his schedule for mic mods anymore, but Samar rebuilt some Chinese Royer/B&O clones with his ribbons and transformers for me several years ago at a very reasonable total cost (less than that kit with his parts, all in - also converted two into a stereo ribbon with 45 degree center hole in the middle for a DPA 4060 omni), and they are daily users, first choice after the Samar MF-65's are deployed. After I had those awhile I had him re-ribbon a pair of Fatheads that already had the Lundahl transformers, and they stepped up greatly in quality, with the bottom bloat and resonance problems gone. Seems he's so backlogged and busy now it might be a long long wait, if he would even take it on. Not to drive biz away from him! : )
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Post by gouge on May 18, 2016 21:05:28 GMT -6
it's the mf65 that got me thinking, that and I've wanted a pair of joly 205 ribbons for a while now.
essentially the issue is I know I won't do as good a job as mark or Michael in getting the ribbon spec'd correctly. that alone makes me a little nervous and means one of those guys would be a very solid route. that's where cost comes in for me. if my diy effort is not a cheaper option then it's just not worth it and i'll go to one of the experts.
the vl37 is effectively what I'd like to emulate. with the exchange rate a vl37 is around $1500 a piece imported.
for diy I would use one of marks transformers. I am leaning towards modding it myself and sending to someone for the ribbon tensioning.
currently I've got an rca 74jr that mark brought back to life plus an rca sk46,
a joly rsm4 which was michaels suggestion for a guitar specific mic and also the royer. they all have different uses and sounds. the only mic that doesn't get any real use is the royer.
I am aiming for a pair of something like the mf37. maybe a stellar rm-3 with the fins cut out of the head is an option.
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Post by EmRR on May 18, 2016 21:39:17 GMT -6
Mine are built on Stellar RM-3 bodies. Those never appear 'in stock' anymore when I look, not sure if they still exist or not. Mark recommended that body for stereo conversion over the RM-7/X-15 type.
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Post by gouge on May 19, 2016 4:20:26 GMT -6
Wonder if the rm3 will fit a long ribbon.
I forgot about the pair m160 I use.... Starting to think I like ribbon mics.
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Post by markfouxman on May 22, 2016 22:17:34 GMT -6
it's the mf65 that got me thinking... the vl37 is effectively what I'd like to emulate. with the exchange rate a vl37 is around $1500 a piece imported... Hi Gouge, The MF65 and VL37 share the same ribbon motors and transformers. I don't think you could emulate them because the motors have extremely short front-to-back signal path and special magnet structure made with custom made magnets (no, you cannot get those off the shelf--they are made to our specifications and cannot be found/purchased online). Each motor has 6 (!!!) magnets. If that's the kind of sound you are after and on a budget, the only thing I could recommend is Apex 205 (or similar rebranded versions) modded with our transformers, ribbons, and resonator plates specifically tuned and fabricated for that particular model. No, it won't rival MF65/VL37 in term of top end extension and transparency, but it will be an awesome mic... probably the next best thing for the third of the price. Our kit from microphone-parts.com is an excellent choice for "classical ribbon" type of sound. Best, M |
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diy ribbon
May 24, 2016 15:56:42 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by gouge on May 24, 2016 15:56:42 GMT -6
it's the mf65 that got me thinking... the vl37 is effectively what I'd like to emulate. with the exchange rate a vl37 is around $1500 a piece imported... Hi Gouge, The MF65 and VL37 share the same ribbon motors and transformers. I don't think you could emulate them because the motors have extremely short front-to-back signal path and special magnet structure made with custom made magnets (no, you cannot get those off the shelf--they are made to our specifications and cannot be found/purchased online). Each motor has 6 (!!!) magnets. If that's the kind of sound you are after and on a budget, the only thing I could recommend is Apex 205 (or similar rebranded versions) modded with our transformers, ribbons, and resonator plates specifically tuned and fabricated for that particular model. No, it won't rival MF65/VL37 in term of top end extension and transparency, but it will be an awesome mic... probably the next best thing for the third of the price. Our kit from microphone-parts.com is an excellent choice for "classical ribbon" type of sound. Best, M Thanks mark, Is the motor kit a long ribbon and does it come pre tensioned. The price for diy puts me off. Once I buy the bodies and the kit I may as well get a ribbon mic from oktavamod or someone else as it would have a warranty and be built by someone with more skill. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on May 24, 2016 19:19:42 GMT -6
Hi Gouge, The MF65 and VL37 share the same ribbon motors and transformers. I don't think you could emulate them because the motors have extremely short front-to-back signal path and special magnet structure made with custom made magnets (no, you cannot get those off the shelf--they are made to our specifications and cannot be found/purchased online). Each motor has 6 (!!!) magnets. If that's the kind of sound you are after and on a budget, the only thing I could recommend is Apex 205 (or similar rebranded versions) modded with our transformers, ribbons, and resonator plates specifically tuned and fabricated for that particular model. No, it won't rival MF65/VL37 in term of top end extension and transparency, but it will be an awesome mic... probably the next best thing for the third of the price. Our kit from microphone-parts.com is an excellent choice for "classical ribbon" type of sound. Best, M I'm interested in the Apex 205 mod.... I have one that never gets used. I bought it with the intention of modding it myself, but haven't gotten around to it. Is this a case where I would ship you the mic, and you would perform the mod, or is it something where you can just send me the parts, and I'll assemble/solder it together? |
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Post by markfouxman on May 26, 2016 19:27:41 GMT -6
Hi Gouge, The MF65 and VL37 share the same ribbon motors and transformers. I don't think you could emulate them because the motors have extremely short front-to-back signal path and special magnet structure made with custom made magnets (no, you cannot get those off the shelf--they are made to our specifications and cannot be found/purchased online). Each motor has 6 (!!!) magnets. If that's the kind of sound you are after and on a budget, the only thing I could recommend is Apex 205 (or similar rebranded versions) modded with our transformers, ribbons, and resonator plates specifically tuned and fabricated for that particular model. No, it won't rival MF65/VL37 in term of top end extension and transparency, but it will be an awesome mic... probably the next best thing for the third of the price. Our kit from microphone-parts.com is an excellent choice for "classical ribbon" type of sound. Best, M I'm interested in the Apex 205 mod.... I have one that never gets used. I bought it with the intention of modding it myself, but haven't gotten around to it. Is this a case where I would ship you the mic, and you would perform the mod, or is it something where you can just send me the parts, and I'll assemble/solder it together? Send us the mic and we will do all the work. Just contact me over email mark@samaraudiodesign.com and I will give you all info. Best, M |
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Post by jfoc on Jun 9, 2016 15:03:01 GMT -6
Here's some clips recorded with a Samar VL37 & a DiY RM5. Apologies for the amateur playing. They were accidentally recorded out of phase. RM5 recorded a little under 3Db hotter, so VL37 was raised 2.5Db in Sonar. Both were 15" back from the speaker.
Chain is Tele w/P90 neck pup, Muchxs Champ amp-->ribbon mic-->Mogaines-->VP28 in line mode w/hpf 6db@80hz-->RME multiface
diy rm5
https%3A//soundcloud.com/jfoc-1/diyoutofphase
Samar VL37
https%3A//soundcloud.com/jfoc-1/outofphasesamar
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