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Post by rowmat on May 3, 2016 12:31:50 GMT -6
I was wondering how many of you guys run mix sessions without the client physically being present during the mixing process?
In the past year around half our clients have come from interstate with half of them choosing not to come down for the mix sessions. Typical reasons are either time (work, family etc) or financial.
As a result we mix, Dropbox the mix, wait for feedback, tweak the mix, Dropbox again etc, etc.
One of the main issues is waiting sometimes a day or more for client feedback.
As we are a hybrid setup we obviously prefer to get feedback ASAP so we can finalise the mix before we move on and reset the console and outboard (Yes recall! - That's what DAW's are for, I know!)
My current thoughts is we move to a system where the client makes themselves available via Skype etc to review any pariticular mix while we have it up on the board so we can make any required changes and then move on.
Last year we had to insist that a couple of clients come down to sit in on their mix sessions as the number of remixes was getting ridiculous.
We convinced one client it would be cheaper for him to fly down than us charge him for the time we would spend remixing and DropBoxing another mix every time he change his mind.
Also having the client in the studio means every hour we spend working on mixes is obvious to the client.
Spending days working on mixes without the client being present makes billing more difficult when they don't see how much time is spent.
There seems to be sort of a weird psychological disconnect that if the client isn't actually in the studio while we are working on their stuff then it somehow it works out cheaper.
Thoughts anyone?
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Post by warrenfirehouse on May 3, 2016 12:43:11 GMT -6
Its the only way I work.
I personally have a tough time concentrating on balance, eq, dynamics, etc, with a room full of people. My best work is always done in peace by myself.
Revisions are not a big deal to me in my ITB hybrid rig. I just have to recall 2bus outboard and patchbay.
If im doing multiple songs I always dropbox one at first and tweak till the clients happy. Its usually only one or two recalls if any. Then, once I have the first as a guide, the others come together quicker and easier.
I always ask for mix notes as well as reference material that the band likes and is aiming for sonically.
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Post by svart on May 3, 2016 12:46:29 GMT -6
I try to do mixes without the client present as much as possible.
I find that it's much more distracting than helping.
The problem is that most artists can't leave well enough alone. You're working on their "baby" and they can't help themselves from suggesting constant changes, which we all know, change the way we hear things over time.
Let's say you have a good mix going.. The client asks for more low end on the guitar. You turn it up and now it sounds a little too boomy, but the artist thinks they hear "thickness". You listen a few minutes and turn the low end back down because you know it'll work out better later.
Now the client thinks it sounds thin and immediately asks for it to be turned back up. You suggest leaving it for a few minutes so they get used to it, but now they insist you turn it back up immediately..
You know it'll be boomy, but they don't have the knowledge of your room and system.
That's just one of the many reasons I don't have folks present while mixing.
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Post by tasteliketape on May 3, 2016 12:58:12 GMT -6
I think Svart nailed it
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Post by rowmat on May 3, 2016 13:02:55 GMT -6
Its the only way I work. I personally have a tough time concentrating on balance, eq, dynamics, etc, with a room full of people. My best work is always done in peace by myself. Revisions are not a big deal to me in my ITB hybrid rig. I just have to recall 2bus outboard and patchbay. If im doing multiple songs I always dropbox one at first and tweak till the clients happy. Its usually only one or two recalls if any. Then, once I have the first as a guide, the others come together quicker and easier. I always ask for mix notes as well as reference material that the band likes and is aiming for sonically. I totally understand about having an entire band hanging about during a mix chatting, texting drinking etc  However most of our work is producing albums from scratch for singer/songwriters. My studio partner is a producer and most productions typically involve several session players with much of the material taking shape in the studio rather than a band walking in with a bunch of well rehearsed songs in which we have little or no production input. So much of our mixing is inherently arrangement driven versus... "Can you turn down the hi-hats 2db?" etc. |
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Post by warrenfirehouse on May 3, 2016 13:04:01 GMT -6
but they don't have the knowledge of your room and system. Agreed. I much rather have their first impression be in their car/headphones that they know as well as I know my monitors/room. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 3, 2016 13:11:14 GMT -6
So much easier without the client, but at the end of the day who's paying the bill? The hardest part of the client in the room, is the little knowledge being dangerous and the client trying to communicate what they want. I can't count the times when I have been told " don't..." And in the end the sound they want is exactly what the told me not to do!
The mixing time with the client for me has always been more about getting a feel for what they want, lots of mental notes and head nods so when they leave the real work begins.
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Post by indiehouse on May 3, 2016 16:23:58 GMT -6
I've done it both ways, and prefer to mix alone. Although, having someone present made me hear things a bit differently. Hard to describe, but it was definitely a different vibe. It was actually a real learning experience.
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Post by rowmat on May 3, 2016 16:58:37 GMT -6
Thanks all. As I said much of what we do is production with the producer also often playing on and co-writing much of the material we record.
The straight up well rehearsed 'rock and roll' band type stuff tends to have less combinations and permutations than material produced from scratch when it comes to the final mix.
Of course tight budgets don't help either!
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Post by EmRR on May 3, 2016 17:49:23 GMT -6
The client hasn't shown up for mix here in years. I'd prefer they show up for some part.
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Post by Ward on May 3, 2016 17:57:08 GMT -6
As much as possible unless it's someone who I know is going to want to remix everything just because he/she/they weren't with me at the time. And then that's often the last time I want to work with that person/group.
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Post by forgotteng on May 3, 2016 21:36:17 GMT -6
Most of the time I mix by myself, send them mixes and then get together for mix notes to finalize. I also ended up getting rid of my console and transitioning to stems for my outboard effected sounds. I just couldn't get my clients to understand and got tired of putting off putting up a new mix because "the client could email me any minute now." I would never even try having the entire band sit in.
The issue sometimes with a singer/song-writer is if they are just getting used to a new arrangement and instrumentation that they never imagined it takes a little more time for them to process. I would rather them listen to that on their own rig and give them a chance to get comfortable.
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Post by rowmat on May 4, 2016 2:51:24 GMT -6
"...The issue sometimes with a singer/song-writer is if they are just getting used to a new arrangement and instrumentation that they never imagined it takes a little more time for them to process?..." Arranging and bringing in session players is a big part of what we do so, as you said, it always adds more variables to the 'mix'. |
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Post by svart on May 4, 2016 14:03:16 GMT -6
You know, I probably should have specified, that when I say mixing, I mean mixing, not editing. Sometimes it's just better to have someone from the band around when doing complex edits. Sometimes explanations from bands don't mean what they say, nor what they think they mean, and it's better to have someone present to explain in real-time. But when it comes to mixing, GTFO!  |
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Post by jazznoise on May 4, 2016 14:44:40 GMT -6
I prefer to do it alone. Clients can't always get the forest from the trees, and there's very little point in them paying you for your experience if they're just going to undermine it with stray observations. As long as they've communicated what they want, the engineer should be able to make it happen. Since I inevitably track all the people I mix, I'm usually fairly confident in my assessment by that point. Seems a little to just get a session with no context or real clue about the artist or the recording session itself.
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Post by bluenoise on May 4, 2016 21:37:27 GMT -6
Same here. 95% of the times I'm mixing on my own. If it's stuff I've tracked, i already have a solid idea of how it should come out. If it's a mixing job, if possible, I ask for a rough and some reference material.
Once done, I send it over and schedule an attended mix notes session to change whatever needs to be addressed if at all.
At this point, mixes are considered approved. That's usually pretty much it.
I like mixing fast. Not careless fast, but fast as in no second guessing. I can't do it like that when there are other people in the room. Besides, I much rather have a fresh first impression from the band/producer. And last but not least, I can work my schedule way easier when mixing alone.
So, I offer a flat rate if mixing alone, and an hourly rate for attended sessions.
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