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Post by svart on Apr 17, 2016 17:39:56 GMT -6
So I decided to make some more panel absorbers and I thought I'd take some pics of how I make them. 1x 7 batt bale of mineral wool (Johns Manville brand from lowe's) 21$ for the bale, 3$ a batt, 9$ per panel. 2x 1x6x72" pine board. 6$ each, 12$ per panel. screws, glue. Estimate about 2$ Something to cover it. Estimate around 10$ for good acoustic burlap. These should cost you around 35$ per panel. You can certainly go cheaper or more expensive though. I buy the mineral wool from Lowe's, and it's the soft type, about 3" thick. 3 batts make one 24x48" panel. Because it's the soft stuff, it has to have some kind of frame. I make mine out of wood, without a lot of tools or excessive/specialty woodworking. I cut two 6ft boards at 4ft in length, leaving 2x 4ft sides and 2x 2ft ends. I measure 1" around the perimeter of the boards, and leave a 1" wide section crossing the middle of the 4ft sections. I cut these sections out with a jigsaw: Attachment DeletedI glue and screw the ends so that the long boards are on the outside: Attachment DeletedSince I'm using leftover speaker grill cloth, which stretches too much to hold the weight of the mineral wool and will end up bulging out, I use common plastic screen material as a backer to the grill cloth to take the majority of the weight of the mineral wool. A 36x84 roll of screen will wrap the front and sides exactly, with a little to cut off on the short ends of the absorber: Attachment DeletedI use 3x batts, with one cut down the center and laid next to the other two. The fit almost exactly from end to end and from side to side like this: Attachment DeletedFor the back, I used some leftover burlap and screen to hold the batts in place. I'm not terribly worried if they bulge a little on the back: Attachment DeletedI stretched the grill cloth as I would any other material, stapled around the edge on the back and trimmed it.  |
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Post by svart on Apr 17, 2016 20:43:13 GMT -6
For those who are interested, it takes about 30-45 minutes to build if you're handy with tools and such.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 17, 2016 21:33:57 GMT -6
cool, i'm about to embark on a pretty large absorber build myself, I'll be doing something similar to your idea here.
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 18, 2016 9:03:41 GMT -6
What about spacing these off the wall? I understand that incorporating an air gap between the wall and the panel increases the efficiency, no? When I built mine, I used rigid 703 placed on top of the frame, leaving a 1.5" air gap the width of the frame. However, 703 is not something I can buy at Lowes, which makes it kind of a pain. I love the idea of just hopping down the street to get all my materials at the hardware store for these.
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Post by svart on Apr 18, 2016 9:13:31 GMT -6
What about spacing these off the wall? I understand that incorporating an air gap between the wall and the panel increases the efficiency, no? When I built mine, I used rigid 703 placed on top of the frame, leaving a 1.5" air gap the width of the frame. However, 703 is not something I can buy at Lowes, which makes it kind of a pain. I love the idea of just hopping down the street to get all my materials at the hardware store for these. I used rigid hangers that I attached to the wall, and just pulled the absorber off of the wall a few inches. My Lowe's also carries Roxul brand mineral wool as well, but it's 20$ more expensive per bale. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 20, 2016 22:52:58 GMT -6
What about spacing these off the wall? I understand that incorporating an air gap between the wall and the panel increases the efficiency, no? When I built mine, I used rigid 703 placed on top of the frame, leaving a 1.5" air gap the width of the frame. However, 703 is not something I can buy at Lowes, which makes it kind of a pain. I love the idea of just hopping down the street to get all my materials at the hardware store for these. 2" of 703 with a 2" air gap is better than 2" of 703 right against the wall, that said, 4" of 703 directly against the wall is better than 2" with a 2" air gap. If you have a maximum distance you can come off the wall, you are better to fill it 100% with the 703, if you can't afford to fill the maximum distance off the wall, then you ad the air gap, but not for any other reason that i'm aware of. |
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Post by jayson on Apr 22, 2016 6:24:44 GMT -6
Are you guys able to source OC 703 locally? I got some through Home Depot at one point and they had to special order it by the case. It worked out OK, but for my needs it would be great if I didn't have to buy it by the case and could pick up a sheet or two on an "as needed" basis. It'd certainly make me feel a lot more receptive to experimenting with things like super-chunk corner traps. Roxul Safe 'n' Sound is pretty easy to find, but it just doesn't seem to have quite the same density. Ever tried office cubicle dividers? Is it worth bothering?
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Post by svart on Apr 22, 2016 6:49:43 GMT -6
Are you guys able to source OC 703 locally? I got some through Home Depot at one point and they had to special order it by the case. It worked out OK, but for my needs it would be great if I didn't have to buy it by the case and could pick up a sheet or two on an "as needed" basis. It'd certainly make me feel a lot more receptive to experimenting with things like super-chunk corner traps. Roxul Safe 'n' Sound is pretty easy to find, but it just doesn't seem to have quite the same density. Ever tried office cubicle dividers? Is it worth bothering? Personally I like mineral wool better. I choose the softer stuff, and just use another layer of it. The reason being is that density has an upper and lower limit for frequency absorption. Higher density will absorb and disperse lower frequencies, but eventually becomes less absorptive at higher frequencies. It's better (in theory) to use lower density but deeper in order to maintain the (theoretical) broadband effect. That being said, I don't know of any good sources for 70x panels. Office cubicle dividers don't have any true absorption material in them.. |
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Post by jfoc on Apr 22, 2016 11:07:00 GMT -6
Are you guys able to source OC 703 locally? I got some through Home Depot at one point and they had to special order it by the case. It worked out OK, but for my needs it would be great if I didn't have to buy it by the case and could pick up a sheet or two on an "as needed" basis. It'd certainly make me feel a lot more receptive to experimenting with things like super-chunk corner traps. Roxul Safe 'n' Sound is pretty easy to find, but it just doesn't seem to have quite the same density. Ever tried office cubicle dividers? Is it worth bothering? ATS has decent prices, shipping is expensive though. singles www.atsacoustics.com/item--Owens-Corning-703--1002.html6 pack www.atsacoustics.com/item--Owens-Corning-703-Case-of-6--1004.html |
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 23, 2016 1:22:50 GMT -6
Contractors supply house, $150 a bag, I just picked up 3 bags of 2" 703 (12 piece per bag), after my last purchase of 2 bags, one of which disappeared by the time I got home( don't ask), my studio has 703, Roxul Rockboard 60, and ultra touch, Roxul sounds the best of the three with its sweet partial hi freq reflection, ultra touch really gobles up the bass, and 703 rules for lifting a ceiling to near invisibility acoustically(2" doubled up to 4")
the softer stuff works better at all frequencies if u can get it thick enough to trap low bass, the rigid stuff is worse up top than soft at about any thickness, as it reflects highs back into the room to some degree
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Post by tasteliketape on Apr 26, 2016 15:14:54 GMT -6
I built some with 703 an a air gap but in the middle I hung a sheet of mass vinyl so it was 703 gap ,mass vinyl air gap , 703 don't know that it's the right way but worked great for me
I also built with the natural insulation same way and much preferred the natural jmo
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Post by svart on Apr 26, 2016 16:04:02 GMT -6
I built some with 703 an a air gap but in the middle I hung a sheet of mass vinyl so it was 703 gap ,mass vinyl air gap , 703 don't know that it's the right way but worked great for me I also built with the natural insulation same way and much preferred the natural jmo Only if it's meant to be double sided. It likely should have been 703, 703, gap, vinyl, gap for a single sided absorber. Even then, the vinyl is likely overkill if you have it hung on a wall. |
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Post by tasteliketape on Apr 26, 2016 16:45:41 GMT -6
It was double sided and moveable or can put several together hinged if nedded gobo type floor standing
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 6, 2017 16:01:17 GMT -6
So, svart, I assume this 1x6" board is actually 5.5" right? Also, you had 16" batts, double layered and squished down a little? It looks like a bale of Rockwool Safe N Sound is $48 at Lowes/Home Depot and includes 12 batts or $12/panel for the wool. Seems like a much better price than the 4" OC boards I was looking at ($37 each). |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 6, 2017 16:09:24 GMT -6
I can vouch for how much easier working with RW is !  |
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Post by svart on Nov 6, 2017 16:12:00 GMT -6
So, svart , I assume this 1x6" board is actually 5.5" right? Also, you had 16" batts, double layered and squished down a little? It looks like a bale of Rockwool Safe N Sound is $48 at Lowes/Home Depot and includes 12 batts or $12/panel for the wool. Seems like a much better price than the 4" OC boards I was looking at ($37 each). Yes, it was a little less than 6", but I don't remember by how much. They were standard 1x6 pine boards though. I used one of these but I don't remember which one.. I think they're the same but one has more in the package: www.lowes.com/pd/Johns-Manville-R15-34-8-sq-ft-Unfaced-Mineral-Wool-Batt-Insulation-with-Sound-Barrier-15-25-in-W-x-47-in-L/50133330?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA-_-LumberAndBuildingMaterials-_-Insulation-_-50133330:Johns_Manville&CAWELAID=&kpid=50133330&CAGPSPN=pla&store_code=1507&k_clickID=d27e9ded-aab4-443f-8818-34df445c1399&gclid=Cj0KCQiArYDQBRDoARIsAMR8s_Q-tjVAG-4nUHEt5LYQ68PHrEK1NO8KosuEXx1zHsgDHEUivEQ_vZwaAgF9EALw_wcBwww.lowes.com/pd/Johns-Manville-49-7-sq-ft-Unfaced-Mineral-Wool-Batt-Insulation-with-Sound-Barrier-15-25-in-W-x-47-in-L/50133328?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA-_-LumberAndBuildingMaterials-_-Insulation-_-50133328:Johns_Manville&CAWELAID=&kpid=50133328&CAGPSPN=pla&store_code=1507&k_clickID=d27e9ded-aab4-443f-8818-34df445c1399&gclid=Cj0KCQiArYDQBRDoARIsAMR8s_Tt_IzFIyMmMJilf3t2T0DVPhAzPdm_iLd7EWqSo9rVT9JOKj1Z_F0aArWfEALw_wcBYes, they were doubled up. I cut one in half, so it's 3 batts per panel. In all, around 30-35$ a panel to build, it just takes a few hours work to make a few of them. |
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Post by svart on Nov 6, 2017 16:13:06 GMT -6
I can vouch for how much easier working with RW is ! OC70x is ridiculously itchy, like a lot more than regular pink fiberglass it seemed. Rockwool seems a lot less itchy than pink fiberglass. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 6, 2017 16:14:10 GMT -6
RW can still give off material so I guess its best to use gloves ? |
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Post by ragan on Nov 6, 2017 16:34:00 GMT -6
Also, if you get one of those cheesy double serrated blade electric knives like your mom/grandma carved turkey with in the 80s, it's ridiculously easy to cut the rockwool. Or foam for that matter.
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Post by svart on Nov 6, 2017 16:48:27 GMT -6
Also, if you get one of those cheesy double serrated blade electric knives like your mom/grandma carved turkey with in the 80s, it's ridiculously easy to cut the rockwool. Or foam for that matter. Nice. I actually use a 1$ bread knife I bought at the thrift store for cutting this stuff and it works great. |
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 7, 2017 11:42:25 GMT -6
Office cubicle dividers don't have any true absorption material in them.. This is not entirely true. There are different qualities of office dividers. The common (useless) ones just use cloth over a hard backing, but the high grade ones do actually contain 2" thick acoustical fiberglass. I know this because after the Loma Prieta quake a great many office buildings in downtown SF filled dumpsters with huge piles of office dividers and e couple friends and I scavanged quite a few and noted the differences. We used most of the good ones for treatment in a small theater I was working at that was strapped for cash. I did some research in a catalog from a company that does corporate office furnishings and it tuned out that the good kind is QUITE expensive when purchased new. Sometimes you can find them at industrial surplus dealers for a more reasonable price. It's pretty easy to tell the difference if you know - just press firmly on the cloth toward the middle of the divider - the bad ones will be hard with essentially no give but the good ones have the obvious softer feel of acoustical fiberglass. I currently have one 4' square, wood framed divider that was obviously pretty expensive when new that was discarded by an HR Block down the street from my old place in SF that sees occasional service as a gobo - works fine. |
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Post by svart on Nov 7, 2017 13:23:34 GMT -6
Office cubicle dividers don't have any true absorption material in them.. This is not entirely true. There are different qualities of office dividers. The common (useless) ones just use cloth over a hard backing, but the high grade ones do actually contain 2" thick acoustical fiberglass. I know this because after the Loma Prieta quake a great many office buildings in downtown SF filled dumpsters with huge piles of office dividers and e couple friends and I scavanged quite a few and noted the differences. We used most of the good ones for treatment in a small theater I was working at that was strapped for cash. I did some research in a catalog from a company that does corporate office furnishings and it tuned out that the good kind is QUITE expensive when purchased new. Sometimes you can find them at industrial surplus dealers for a more reasonable price. It's pretty easy to tell the difference if you know - just press firmly on the cloth toward the middle of the divider - the bad ones will be hard with essentially no give but the good ones have the obvious softer feel of acoustical fiberglass. I currently have one 4' square, wood framed divider that was obviously pretty expensive when new that was discarded by an HR Block down the street from my old place in SF that sees occasional service as a gobo - works fine. Ok. we gutted our old office building and threw out about 5 different types of 400 total dividers of (then) top quality, and other than a little open celled foam between the fabric, there wasn't any acoustical material. We had some guys come by and ask if they could take them out of the dumpsters, strip them for the metal as long as they cleaned up and put the leftover materials back in the dumpsters. We agreed since it wasn't going to cost us anything, and they spent a good week stripping all the panels for the steel and copper. |
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 9, 2017 15:38:28 GMT -6
This is not entirely true. There are different qualities of office dividers. The common (useless) ones just use cloth over a hard backing, but the high grade ones do actually contain 2" thick acoustical fiberglass. I know this because after the Loma Prieta quake a great many office buildings in downtown SF filled dumpsters with huge piles of office dividers and e couple friends and I scavanged quite a few and noted the differences. We used most of the good ones for treatment in a small theater I was working at that was strapped for cash. I did some research in a catalog from a company that does corporate office furnishings and it tuned out that the good kind is QUITE expensive when purchased new. Sometimes you can find them at industrial surplus dealers for a more reasonable price. It's pretty easy to tell the difference if you know - just press firmly on the cloth toward the middle of the divider - the bad ones will be hard with essentially no give but the good ones have the obvious softer feel of acoustical fiberglass. I currently have one 4' square, wood framed divider that was obviously pretty expensive when new that was discarded by an HR Block down the street from my old place in SF that sees occasional service as a gobo - works fine. Ok. we gutted our old office building and threw out about 5 different types of 400 total dividers of (then) top quality, and other than a little open celled foam between the fabric, there wasn't any acoustical material. We had some guys come by and ask if they could take them out of the dumpsters, strip them for the metal as long as they cleaned up and put the leftover materials back in the dumpsters. We agreed since it wasn't going to cost us anything, and they spent a good week stripping all the panels for the steel and copper. I wasn't aware of the foam ones. I can assure you that the ones I mentioned aren't like that - I had some of them open (some had damaged cloth) and , aside from it LOOKING like fiberglass, open cell foam just doesn't give you the itchies like that! |
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Post by drbill on Nov 9, 2017 19:43:58 GMT -6
I've got some office "dividers" that I use as gobo's and like John mentioned, they have owens-corning 703 in them and they look great. Well....they would look better with cooler fabric, but build wise, they are super strong and as good as any purpose built studio acoustic panels. Better than some. One of these days I'll get around to re-skinning them.
I like working with the rigid fiberglass better than the fluffy stuff, but if you're going fluffy, the recycled denim batts are available at Lowe's and it's what Jeff Hedback recommends now....
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