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Post by mulmany on Apr 7, 2016 13:34:07 GMT -6
Are there any caviots that I sould be aware of? I have two Bittree 96 point TT half-normaled bays. My plan is to rearrange the switchcraft jacks around to make the proper combinations of full, half, and non normals. Any issues with taking the switching jacks from the Insert section and moving them to the mic/pre amp section. I will need to strap grounds vertically for Bank 1.
Layout will be: Bank 1 - Mic plate outputs full-normaled to Pre amp inputs Bank 2 - Converter outputs half-normaled to nothing (eventually summing/mixer) Bank 3 - Pre amp outputs half-normaled to Converter inputs Bank 4 - Insert outputs non-normaled to insert inputs
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Post by svart on Apr 7, 2016 13:52:06 GMT -6
Can you draw a pic of any kind? I'm not sure I follow the text version..
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Post by mulmany on Apr 7, 2016 15:08:36 GMT -6
Took a closer look at the jacks used in the bay, and Bittree used the same full normalling jack in both top and bottom rows. So I don't need to pull jacks and move them around, just how they are wired. Still not exactly sure about ground for the mic outputs to pre inputs... I could just make those non-normal and have to physically patch mic to pre. svart I will see what I can do pic wise. |
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Post by mulmany on Apr 7, 2016 16:26:02 GMT -6
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Post by mulmany on Apr 7, 2016 19:55:49 GMT -6
So I need a Switchcraft TT36A jack to break ground on a 48v pass patch schem. Now is it worth it to convert 48 jacks over? I did get a killer deal on the bays. If I ramble on long enough I will have it worked out, kinda cathartic!
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Post by winetree on Apr 7, 2016 20:02:46 GMT -6
I've always heard it's best to not run 48 volts thru TT patch bays.
It's best to use XLR patch bays for mics.
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Post by mulmany on Apr 7, 2016 20:40:30 GMT -6
I've always heard it's best to not run 48 volts thru TT patch bays. It's best to use XLR patch bays for mics. The funny thing about that is, almost every large format console has Mic outs (tie lines) brought out to the bay and normaled to the pre amp inputs. What I want to avoid is having to patch what I would normally use channel wise. Its also less space, using a TT bay. It would be bad to patch with 48v on, you just make sure you don't do it. If I do the bay layout correctly, I should only be patching a few channels while tracking. Overdubs would be a concern, when you try a few different pres out real quick. The TT36A jack solves the ground schem issue with bringing 48v to the bay, since you use a Isolated jack field. Its only money, right! |
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Post by svart on Apr 7, 2016 20:48:47 GMT -6
Just about every studio I've every been in has TT patchbays for the preamps.. Not once have I heard anyone say that phantom shouldn't go through bantam..
Anyway, I'd still need to see your patching diagram. Really, only you can decide what is right for you. My patchbays are all specially wired, I guess you could call them pseudo-half-normalled. I did it this way to minimize the patch cords I'd need so that the patchbays are configured for the most general use cases.
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Post by mulmany on Apr 7, 2016 21:08:31 GMT -6
How did you solve the grounding switching for the pre-amp patching?
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Post by svart on Apr 7, 2016 21:50:46 GMT -6
How did you solve the grounding switching for the pre-amp patching? I'm not sure what you mean. Ground doesn't switch. Ground from the preamp input is the ground through the patchbay, to the mic. The half-normals should always have ground connected no matter if something is plugged or not. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 7, 2016 22:02:58 GMT -6
Just about every studio I've every been in has TT patchbays for the preamps.. Not once have I heard anyone say that phantom shouldn't go through bantam.. Anyway, I'd still need to see your patching diagram. Really, only you can decide what is right for you. My patchbays are all specially wired, I guess you could call them pseudo-half-normalled. I did it this way to minimize the patch cords I'd need so that the patchbays are configured for the most general use cases. I run NO phantom power through my patchbays, I have an XLR patchbay like winetree mentioned, i've also been to a hundred studio's in LA over the years, from my recollection, very few ran phantom through the patchbay, heres a snippet from an SOS article on the matter.  |
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Post by mulmany on Apr 8, 2016 5:41:33 GMT -6
How did you solve the grounding switching for the pre-amp patching? I'm not sure what you mean. Ground doesn't switch. Ground from the preamp input is the ground through the patchbay, to the mic. The half-normals should always have ground connected no matter if something is plugged or not. But if you have the ground strapped or bussed you have two or more ground paths when patched. The one through the patch cable and the other through the jack. In my situation I am using individual 500 series pres not a console with a single ground. |
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Post by svart on Apr 8, 2016 6:29:05 GMT -6
I'm not sure what you mean. Ground doesn't switch. Ground from the preamp input is the ground through the patchbay, to the mic. The half-normals should always have ground connected no matter if something is plugged or not. But if you have the ground strapped or bussed you have two or more ground paths when patched. The one through the patch cable and the other through the jack. In my situation I am using individual 500 series pres not a console with a single ground. I'm using individual 500 series pres, some rack units, and console pres all a the same time, through the patchbay. I don't have the grounds strapped between the TT jacks. Based on the pics you posted, neither do you.. But in any case, the 500 series chassis will have each I/O grounded to the chassis anyway, so even if you had your patchbay jacks grounded, the possibility of a loop issue is low. |
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Post by mulmany on Apr 8, 2016 10:16:58 GMT -6
Ok... the research I have done says that you need dedicated I/O audio ground switching for your tie line - pre amp section of the bay. This is only because of 48v, so that the ground only ties back to the pre that is providing power. I never dug into the patch bay wiring of the studios that I worked in, so I am not real familiar with what is theory and what is actually implemented. I found out about the tt36a ground switching jack from a post by the head of Studio Electronics. He stated that using those jacks was the best implementation for tie line to preamp patching. It's probably more academic at this point since every install is different. If I can implement the best ground scheme, why not? I also left out that my whole rig is mobile, so I like robust/best. On a quest for knowledge, but I am also a realist! svart The pic of the patchbay jacks are how I got them, so I have not begun to modify them yet. Thanks |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 10, 2016 21:00:19 GMT -6
Ok... the research I have done says that you need dedicated I/O audio ground switching for your tie line - pre amp section of the bay. This is only because of 48v, so that the ground only ties back to the pre that is providing power. I never dug into the patch bay wiring of the studios that I worked in, so I am not real familiar with what is theory and what is actually implemented. I found out about the tt36a ground switching jack from a post by the head of Studio Electronics. He stated that using those jacks was the best implementation for tie line to preamp patching. It's probably more academic at this point since every install is different. If I can implement the best ground scheme, why not? I also left out that my whole rig is mobile, so I like robust/best. On a quest for knowledge, but I am also a realist! svart The pic of the patchbay jacks are how I got them, so I have not begun to modify them yet. Thanks Go read the stuff on Mr patchbays website! Yes almost every board shipped with bays uses TT with phantom ! |
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