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Greed
Apr 12, 2016 20:54:41 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 12, 2016 20:54:41 GMT -6
Good luck going on tour. Vacationing. Traveling for work. It's unrealistic. The medical industry will not be getting smaller, divesting into local organizations. It will encourage one state to keep up with the Joneses and they will all pretty much be the same.
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Greed
Apr 12, 2016 22:21:55 GMT -6
Post by tonycamphd on Apr 12, 2016 22:21:55 GMT -6
Good luck going on tour. Vacationing. Traveling for work. It's unrealistic. The medical industry will not be getting smaller, divesting into local organizations. It will encourage one state to keep up with the Joneses and they will all pretty much be the same. no it won't, it'll encourage them to get away with what ever they can when they lobby the local politicians, lets keep it real, exactly like they used to, cept WAAAAY worse by your standard, states have always controlled their health insurance until the ACA, and cost were flying out of control, the fact is that the ACA has slowed exploding healthcare costs, NJ controlled their insurance affairs, so did Cali, all things being equal, my brother used to pay $350 a month for health insurance, and $250 a month for car insurance, while i paid $145 for health, and $32 a month for car, what's wrong with that picture? Unregulated free market capitalism is a fail, see bipartisan financial crash 2008, it is a must to have oversight, without it the greed becomes parasitic, sucking it's host until death, in turn killing itself, again, see bipartisan financial crash 2008. the fact is the US healthcare system is woefully bad, the only thing it's good at is costing more with a lesser positive outcome than every other first world country/economy on the planet, the one thing it excels at is catastrophic trauma care. There is a glimmer of hope though, the rising costs of healthcare have declined 1/2 since the ACA, they're still going up, but less than 1/2 the rate of rise as prior to the ACA, and that is good news no matter your party affiliation. there is nothing political about this, the facts are the facts, the lead link here is from Forbes for god sake, read it! www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2014/10/31/key-study-on-obamacare-2015-premium-rates-is-out-and-you-wont-believe-whats-going-to-happen/#7fe272fe6c52www.factcheck.org/2014/02/aca-impact-on-per-capita-cost-of-health-care/www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/25/donald-trump/trump-obamacare-health-care-premiums-going-35-45-5/
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Post by Randge on Apr 12, 2016 22:24:21 GMT -6
Yeah, I used to have good Tennessee based health insurance until Obamacare came along and abolished it. It worked great for my family for over 15 years. Now, someone else has my insurance and my fines help those who don't work to get it for free. I'd say that fucking sucks ass.
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Greed
Apr 12, 2016 22:27:17 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 12, 2016 22:27:17 GMT -6
I am for more capitalism and the government allowing it to work properly, which they haven't done in a long damn time. I pay my Dr directly now and it's far cheaper than being raped by Obamacare. All of the Obamacare policies they presented us wouldn't even be taken by Vanderbilt Bone and Joint Clinic for my wife's arm surgery. I am sure glad she had the surgery before the Obamacare disaster hit. She still needs one more minor surgery to remove the plate in her arm but thanks to Obamacare, we weren't able to get it done. Her insurance from her new job is kicking in soon and I hope we can get it done when that happens.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 12, 2016 22:30:25 GMT -6
I should also add that most of the states seeing higher costs were thrown under the bus by their governors who were politically expedient, instead of doing right by their constituents, read the forbes article, and look at the map, it's short as hell. All the states suffering increases had governors that denied setting up exchanges, so the people now pay for it, and their states created less jobs, and generated less revenue to boot, so stupid its amazing.
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Greed
Apr 12, 2016 22:33:39 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 12, 2016 22:33:39 GMT -6
That's because they knew what shit insurance it really is and they care about their people enough to not fuck them over buying that crap.
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Greed
Apr 12, 2016 22:35:52 GMT -6
Post by tonycamphd on Apr 12, 2016 22:35:52 GMT -6
That's because they knew what shit insurance it really is and they care about their people enough to not fuck them over buying that crap. dude, it's not insurance, it's a regulation, seriously, the insurance companies are as private as they ever were.
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Greed
Apr 12, 2016 22:36:03 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 12, 2016 22:36:03 GMT -6
It's absolutely terrible insurance that covers very poorly and has deductibles over 6 times the cost of what I had before. That, is a major fail and I care to not discuss it further with you, Tony. You're a huge lib and I'm not. Our views will never mesh, so let's leave it at that.
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Greed
Apr 12, 2016 22:36:58 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 12, 2016 22:36:58 GMT -6
The insurance that was laid in front of us by BCBS is what I was talking about. Those were the options we were presented as "regulated" by Obamacare.
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Greed
Apr 12, 2016 22:43:10 GMT -6
Post by tonycamphd on Apr 12, 2016 22:43:10 GMT -6
ok Randy, you win, i'm sure in your world the ACA is insurance "face palm"
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Greed
Apr 12, 2016 22:55:57 GMT -6
EmRR likes this
Post by Randge on Apr 12, 2016 22:55:57 GMT -6
No, it hurts me, my friends and my family. I get fighting mad about it. It's royally fucked me over and I would love to beat the asses that passed it.
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 7:09:34 GMT -6
Post by jazznoise on Apr 13, 2016 7:09:34 GMT -6
This neoliberal idea that capitalism left unregulated would flourish is nonsense. Do you think politicians started regulating out of boredom?
No,they do it because of a complicated mix of influences which is the VERY nature of the beast. The public, the 5th estate, lobby groups, ideology and the realpolitik of their careers guide them less like a hand and more like a series of vines pulling a wall apart. If you're against crony-capitalism, you're against capitalism. They're interchangable concepts.
If you're healthcare costs went up, it's because you could afford for them to do so. The cost you burden is the safety net for those struggling at the bottom. That's a social liberal concept where you don't deserve to die for working in Maccy D's and getting an abscess in your spine.
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 8:31:39 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 13, 2016 8:31:39 GMT -6
It's not my damn job to pick others out of the mire. It's my job to take care of me and my family and make sure we aren't on the dole. I came from poverty myself and worked my way out just like anyone in America has the opportunity to do. It's the pursuit of happiness, not the guarantee of it. My health costs rose strictly from the implement of Obamacare and no other reason. My payments were nearly the same for 15 years prior. It worked fine for over 15 years, so your condescending bullshit is for ears of your own ilk. I hardly ever used my health insurance and the money I paid in already went to help others and that was more than enough for one persons contribution to society. Capitalism works very well when left alone and not manipulated. For example, instead of bailing out the auto industry, they should have gone the way of beta and new companies formed making vehicles that were safer and more sought after. Now, instead, America builds shit for cars. I was in the auto collision industry for years (went to school for it) before committing to music full time, so I still pay attention to how they are built and pick the safest vehicles I can for my family to drive. Guess what, those cars aren't made in America now and it's the governments fault there as well. Politicians manipulate, they don't regulate anything.
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 8:53:41 GMT -6
Post by NoFilterChuck on Apr 13, 2016 8:53:41 GMT -6
lol have you never heard of the housing market crash from a couple years ago? The big bank bailout by Bush in the 2000's? The great Depression in the 1930's? Those happened because Capitalism was left alone and allowed to fester uncontrollably. Do you know what a housing lottery is? They have them here in NYC when new skyscrapers are erected. Basically, rich real estate developers build a new 40+ story apartment building in a prime location and are hoping to charge folks a BUNCH of money for tiny apartments. By doing this, the developers raise the value of the surrounding properties and that makes the other landlords raise their rent, forcing out the tenants with lower incomes because they can't afford these higher rents. So, the NYC HUD passed a regulation that says "when you build these apartment buildings, you gotta rent a certain percentage to folks in a specific income bracket. Not only that, but you can't raise the rent every year more than 7%". Here's an example of that: If we didn't have that housing lottery or rent increase regulation, NYC would be uninhabitable for most Americans because it would be too expensive. Regulations are good because they protect those that would be destroyed by the greed of others.
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 8:58:37 GMT -6
Post by NoFilterChuck on Apr 13, 2016 8:58:37 GMT -6
The same thing that Hospitals and Doctors have done with their rates is the same thing that Landlords would do with rents if they didn't have these regulations in place.
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 9:03:47 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 13, 2016 9:03:47 GMT -6
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 9:05:30 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 13, 2016 9:05:30 GMT -6
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 9:06:57 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 13, 2016 9:06:57 GMT -6
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 9:11:43 GMT -6
Post by NoFilterChuck on Apr 13, 2016 9:11:43 GMT -6
those are some nice non-partisan links you've posted lol *eye roll*
You do understand the difference between what you posted and what the rest of us have posted, right? My original link to the 42-page article contains a lot of facts. The picture I posted about NYC housing contains a lot of facts. Your links contain lots of opinions, so...
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 9:15:02 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 13, 2016 9:15:02 GMT -6
Bullshit. There is plenty of proof if you actually want to see it.
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 9:15:33 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 13, 2016 9:15:33 GMT -6
I research every day. It's a huge part of my existence.
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 9:16:36 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 13, 2016 9:16:36 GMT -6
1999, the Clinton's pushed Mae and Mac to create the housing crunch. Fact.
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 9:24:37 GMT -6
Post by Randge on Apr 13, 2016 9:24:37 GMT -6
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Greed
Apr 13, 2016 10:00:08 GMT -6
Post by jazznoise on Apr 13, 2016 10:00:08 GMT -6
Randge, you seem like a decent guy but your politics are awful. FreedomOutpost ain't no Economist, that's for sure. Rush Limbaugh is meant for recovering crack addicts. Now say what you like but we'll watch the studio industry get gentrified out of practice, as is currently happening, and when your place is under threat and no one's intervening you can thank your Libertarian image of God that no one ever gave a shit about anyone else long enough to do something.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 13, 2016 11:13:45 GMT -6
Our hospitals and health insurance companies were mostly non-profits before the Reagan Administration refused to pay for the National Institutes of Health buying incubators that were capable of screening blood for AIDS. At that point most were turned into public corporations beholden to stockholder profits due to the massive risk that had been created by the best government money can buy.
Obamacare gives individuals the same benefits corporate employees enjoy including no pre-existing conditions. Corporations renegotiate their health insurance yearly and go with the lowest bidder. In the past insurance companies subsidized their need to compete for corporate business by gouging individuals.
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