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Post by mrholmes on Mar 30, 2016 17:02:21 GMT -6
It s years ago and it was in the good GS times.
Background of the topic was that I loved mixing ITB into my stereo 1073.
Bob Katz taught me that even a small amount of quantization distortion can lead to a stressed sound?
He told me that it happens in all DAWs even internal in the plug ins and that my 1073 may covers it.
I am asking again because I am mixing ITB for a project that is handled over sea and needs many recalls.
And I think the more plug ins I ad, the more tracks we have, the more stressed is the sound.
Can it be perception, or is it true that even the smallest amount of it is destroying all the fun.
Cheers....
Holmes
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Mar 30, 2016 17:25:57 GMT -6
The problem is that the distortion accumulates and not all downstream processing gets dithered. At some point it starts sounding crunchy.
Using 32 bit float plug-ins is lots better than using 24 bit fixed plug-ins without dither however those thankfully are only found in old Pro Tools TDM systems. Still less is more.
Be sure the converter you are listening to is being fed a 24 bit dithered signal.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 30, 2016 20:02:12 GMT -6
The problem is that the distortion accumulates and not all downstream processing gets dithered. At some point it starts sounding crunchy. Using 32 bit float plug-ins is lots better than using 24 bit fixed plug-ins without dither however those thankfully are only found in old Pro Tools TDM systems. Still less is more. Be sure the converter you are listening to is being fed a 24 bit dithered signal. I was hopeing for your expertise Bob. Thank you .... Buddha takes care for you... Intresting - in other words some plug in developpers don't do internal dithering? I use a 24 bit dither plug in the last insert of the mix bus?? My thinking was that the converter is reducing the bit depth from 32 (internal DAW) to 24 (internal Converter)?? |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Mar 30, 2016 22:31:25 GMT -6
Some do such as waves and Sonnox.
Almost all converters truncate to 24.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 31, 2016 2:28:03 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Mar 31, 2016 8:46:59 GMT -6
You're very much overthinking it. Your bit depth (24/32) is not the only part that determines the basis for the error, it's the sample rate (44/48/96, etc) as well. Both are equally important. Your perceived quantization error is only as bad as the ADC anti-aliasing filter or the DAC reconstruction filter (Low pass) quality is. Once you'd sampled the audio, it's just data. There is no quantization error happening UNTIL you dither/samplerate convert. If you do this digitally, then the algorithm needs to also be high quality. If you are not going between various bit depths and sample rates internally, then you should not be adding quantization error, a common misconception. The MOST critical part, and the part that a lot of people don't even know about is the DAC reconstruction filter. It takes the current pulses and turns them into voltage pulses (I/V stage). The next stage is the LPF, which filters out the higher harmonics of the resulting square waveforms and turns them into sinusoidal waveforms. The quality of those two DAC filter sections are extremely important, probably more so than the sample/bit rates.. A bad filter will make 96K have more distortion, or worse frequency response than 44.1, etc. |
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Post by warrenfirehouse on Mar 31, 2016 19:02:07 GMT -6
The problem is that the distortion accumulates and not all downstream processing gets dithered. At some point it starts sounding crunchy. Using 32 bit float plug-ins is lots better than using 24 bit fixed plug-ins without dither however those thankfully are only found in old Pro Tools TDM systems. Still less is more. Be sure the converter you are listening to is being fed a 24 bit dithered signal. So, what if you are bouncing tracks through outboard and coming back into the daw.... would you apply dither on the tracks leaving the computer before da conversion? If mixing digitally through analog 2bus processing, would you sum to a stereo bus with dither before the da? Does it make a difference if working at 24 bit or 32 float? |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Mar 31, 2016 19:54:46 GMT -6
Yes, converters are virtually all 24 bit. as is AES/EBU and SPDIF.
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