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Post by Ward on Jul 26, 2013 10:10:22 GMT -6
So, I've got 35 channels of mic preamps. Everything from Neve and API to grace, focusrite isa and red series etc etc...
Do you want to know the biggest surprise? One of the best sounding preamps I have ever heard that translates exactly what you're putting in. in a very musical way with a sound that translates in a mix perfectly with little to no EQ?
I'm sure I'd be shunned or banned elsewhere for saying this but the Aphex 107 tube-essence is unbelievably good and they can be had used for $100. $50 a channel. How they work on toms and LCD vocals is beyond 10x the price.
I'll deny ever typing this and claim I was hacked.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 26, 2013 10:36:03 GMT -6
So, I've got 35 channels of mic preamps. Everything from Neve and API to grace, focusrite isa and red series etc etc... Do you want to know the biggest surprise? One of the best sounding preamps I have ever heard that translates exactly what you're putting in. in a very musical way with a sound that translates in a mix perfectly with little to no EQ? I'm sure I'd be shunned or banned elsewhere for saying this but the Aphex 107 tube-essence is unbelievably good and they can be had used for $100. $50 a channel. How they work on toms and LCD vocals is beyond 10x the price. I'll deny ever typing this and claim I was hacked.Havent used it, but it doesn't surprise me, i have 4 modded aphex 651's, and they are $$$! gonna pick up a 107 and give it a whirl, thanx wardy |
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Post by Ward on Jul 26, 2013 12:24:23 GMT -6
Geez, man, only 4 people in my life have called me Wardy. All women. One gave birth to me and the other 3 were nekked with me... I feel so violated now - I'm not your type, but good luck with that! LOL
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 26, 2013 14:59:01 GMT -6
Better than "Warty"
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 26, 2013 15:07:16 GMT -6
Geez, man, only 4 people in my life have called me Wardy. All women. One gave birth to me and the other 3 were nekked with me... I feel so violated now - I'm not your type, but good luck with that! LOL One of my favorite motocrossers of all time was named Larry Ward, aka "wardy"! It's now Ward from here on in, as i have no apparent desire to neck with you lol! |
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Post by sozocaps on Jul 26, 2013 16:59:16 GMT -6
Yea man Ward! I still ride and watch MX tons, recovering from 4 broke ribs as we speak... I met, hang out with, and have rode with A LOT of riders. I have a Canadian pro Jeremy Medaglia who has been over in the studio playing xbox after a day of riding... He calls the studio the man cave... ahaha
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Post by Ward on Jul 26, 2013 23:48:54 GMT -6
LMAO
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 28, 2013 22:54:51 GMT -6
Funny guys.
I have little experience with pres at home, but have had the Warm Audio WA12 for a few months and like it a lot. I want more for vocals though, so I'll be switching to their ToneBeast when it arrives, as it has more options for a cleaner vocal. I've used the Great River and thought it was very good, nice and round. My favorite vocal sound ever, was an original C12 through an SSL board, I felt like Bono for a day.
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Post by wiz on Jul 28, 2013 23:02:48 GMT -6
use a SM58 and you can feel like him every day 8)
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 28, 2013 23:57:25 GMT -6
It must be my voice, because my SM58 sure doesn't make me sound that good ! I think he used a C12 on Unforgettable Fire, and that's one of my favorite vocal sounds.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 29, 2013 0:07:42 GMT -6
It must be my voice, because my SM58 sure doesn't make me sound that good ! I think he used a C12 on Unforgettable Fire, and that's one of my favorite vocal sounds. Is that a joke, or is wiz saying that bono uses a 58 in the studio? I have a c12 clone with a tim campbell capsule in it, it's beautiful, especially on acoustic instruments. sorry if i didn't get the joke(if there was one?), i was born in a truck 8/ |
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Post by matt on Jul 29, 2013 0:09:37 GMT -6
It must be my voice, because my SM58 sure doesn't make me sound that good ! I think he used a C12 on Unforgettable Fire, and that's one of my favorite vocal sounds. Is that a joke, or is wiz saying that bono uses a 58 in the studio? I have a c12 clone with a tim campbell capsule in it, it's beautiful, especially on acoustic instruments. sorry if i didn't get the joke(if there was one?), i was born in a truck 8/ No, it's true, apparently, an SM58 has been used by Bono while tracking. |
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Post by wiz on Jul 29, 2013 0:44:28 GMT -6
I wasnt there, so I cant say definitively but... www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_articles/mar94/u2robbieadams.htmland I have read it other times... Honestly I can see why. You can sing without headphones on in the control room and if you have spent your life, with a sm58 in your hands doing live gigs... why not... if it gets you the right performance. cheers Wiz |
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Post by Gustav on Jul 29, 2013 3:07:40 GMT -6
Thread title is a little weird, since opinions are implicitly biased... I never understood the preamp thing, but I have used a lot. I usually bunch them into two categories. The kind that are big and open, and the kind that are pinched and distorted - in a good way! (oh, and the kind that makes things sound worse). The rest is for the birds  Gustav |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 29, 2013 8:13:41 GMT -6
I googled it, and yes, Bono did use the SM58 on many records, and he did use the C12 on Unforgettable Fire, (the sound I liked most). Gustav, I too think of pres as either specific coloration or an open 'smoother-outer". That's why I'm going to get the ToneBeast, it has both options in one box, great for the minimalist home studio cats like me. Oh, 'minimalist' is code for someone who doesn't the the cash to "maximize". That said, even with a big budget, I would probably design a system with much fewer options than many, but well chosen pieces.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 29, 2013 10:56:09 GMT -6
I think we're all a little preamp crazy...it's the sum of EVERY part that really leads to the sound...I think the AD is extremely important. Probably moreso than most...It's the basic building block that the rest of your chain is standing on. If that doesn't sound good, you're screwed...Of course, a great player/singer can make pretty much anything sound good. My thoughts on that in order of importance -
1. The source
2. Mic
3. AD conversion
4. Room
5. Preamp
Certainly there are good pres and there are bad pres, but if the pre does what it's supposed to - amplify the sound and add a euphonic texture - then it's golden. I use Jeff's pres exclusively right now because hey are an exceptional product and fantastically priced. The only thing using a vintage Neve 1073 would do for me is sound different...not particularly better...just different. The VP28 ventures into Neve land for me and the Heider 312, API. I'd like to add a Heritage 1073, but at this point, it would just be a luxury for another color. Not necessity.
Speaking about "the sum of all parts"...I have used a Miktek CV4 for a couple of years now. A good mic...has a some Chinese zing, but much less than others I've tried. Fantastic mic for the money. I had been running it through a chain like this for vox - CV4-->VP28-->Sta-Level-->VC528-->Symphony. Sounded fantastic. I had been somewhat attributing that chain's sound to the mic...Well, let me tell you, it ain't the same mic without the sta and the Missing Link (528). The sta adds heft and pulls some of the strident mids out. The VC528 clips and compresses transients and filters out the Chinese zing on the top...
Hopefully, Shannon's mod will help the CV4 start out even better...
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Post by jimwilliams on Jul 29, 2013 11:30:32 GMT -6
Full disclosure: A fully biased opinion on mic preamps.
I've been doing this for 50 years now. I can say I've used just about every preamp/topology around (except some of the newer botique-y fashion pieces).
I have some preamps with a transformer (Jensens), most without. I've built transistor designs, tube designs, opamp designs. Sold most of I've those off, except for my production preamps.
I've abandoned most tube circuits (have one I like without negative feedback and .003% THD), no more discrete mic preamp designs and no more voltage feedback designs using tubes, transistors or opamps.
Now I use one or two designs here. These are newer concepts for amplification not used before in audio. They are based on transconductance, AKA "current feedback".
They have a sound almost tube like in the mids and low end, fat, warm clear. The top end is super relaxing, without a hint of transistor sound nor stridency, sort of like your ears. Specs follow the sonics, .0005% THD+noise, .0002% IMD, -136 db EIN and a whopping 100 mhz of operational bandwidth. Slew rate is like an SR-71 Blackbird. Audio is child's play to these circuits.
I'm spoiled, permanently. Can't use anything else, all I focus on is what I'm missing from other topologies. It's more easy on the ears, no fatigue and covers anything I record, anything. If it doesn't sound good, it's not the preamp's fault.
I know of no other designers making current feedback based mic preamps. Eventually there will be once the word gets out. I've been building them since 1994.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 29, 2013 11:43:01 GMT -6
Full disclosure: A fully biased opinion on mic preamps. I've been doing this for 50 years now. I can say I've used just about every preamp/topology around (except some of the newer botique-y fashion pieces). I have some preamps with a transformer (Jensens), most without. I've built transistor designs, tube designs, opamp designs. Sold most of I've those off, except for my production preamps. I've abandoned most tube circuits (have one I like without negative feedback and .003% THD), no more discrete mic preamp designs and no more voltage feedback designs using tubes, transistors or opamps. Now I use one or two designs here. These are newer concepts for amplification not used before in audio. They are based on transconductance, AKA "current feedback". They have a sound almost tube like in the mids and low end, fat, warm clear. The top end is super relaxing, without a hint of transistor sound nor stridency, sort of like your ears. Specs follow the sonics, .0005% THD+noise, .0002% IMD, -136 db EIN and a whopping 100 mhz of operational bandwidth. Slew rate is like an SR-71 Blackbird. Audio is child's play to these circuits. I'm spoiled, permanently. Can't use anything else, all I focus on is what I'm missing from other topologies. It's more easy on the ears, no fatigue and covers anything I record, anything. If it doesn't sound good, it's not the preamp's fault. I know of no other designers making current feedback based mic preamps. Eventually there will be once the word gets out. I've been building them since 1994. those specs are rad! is this the basis of your 2 channel pre i've been pining after? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 11:44:46 GMT -6
Daking IV. API 3124. Brent Avril 1073 MPF DUAL ......Not in that order
when i track my drums.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 29, 2013 11:44:48 GMT -6
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Post by jimwilliams on Jul 29, 2013 12:03:51 GMT -6
Full disclosure: A fully biased opinion on mic preamps. I've been doing this for 50 years now. I can say I've used just about every preamp/topology around (except some of the newer botique-y fashion pieces). I have some preamps with a transformer (Jensens), most without. I've built transistor designs, tube designs, opamp designs. Sold most of I've those off, except for my production preamps. I've abandoned most tube circuits (have one I like without negative feedback and .003% THD), no more discrete mic preamp designs and no more voltage feedback designs using tubes, transistors or opamps. Now I use one or two designs here. These are newer concepts for amplification not used before in audio. They are based on transconductance, AKA "current feedback". They have a sound almost tube like in the mids and low end, fat, warm clear. The top end is super relaxing, without a hint of transistor sound nor stridency, sort of like your ears. Specs follow the sonics, .0005% THD+noise, .0002% IMD, -136 db EIN and a whopping 100 mhz of operational bandwidth. Slew rate is like an SR-71 Blackbird. Audio is child's play to these circuits. I'm spoiled, permanently. Can't use anything else, all I focus on is what I'm missing from other topologies. It's more easy on the ears, no fatigue and covers anything I record, anything. If it doesn't sound good, it's not the preamp's fault. I know of no other designers making current feedback based mic preamps. Eventually there will be once the word gets out. I've been building them since 1994. those specs are rad! is this the basis of your 2 channel pre i've been pining after? Yes, made since 1994. Down to the last couple of units. I also have mini cards I made to retrofit other's products, a 2x3" square pcb. I have several designs done, but without "market forces" to generate them, they may not be made. Also in the design bag are 500 modules, a special box that allows combining mic preamps or outboard from one or two sources (use 2 different mic preamps at once, even split hi's and low's from one to the other), a low frequency 2nd harmonic generator, and other wack-a-mole conceptual designs. Too bad we are in the post apoctolyptic record-biz collapse era, these designs would be hot sellers 20 years ago. |
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Post by BradM on Jul 29, 2013 12:32:24 GMT -6
Hi Jim,
It's good to see you here. I'm really curious about this current feedback preamp design you mention. These 2x3" PCB's...which products do these retrofit? What's the interface like?
I'd love to hear this design. I'm a big fan of everything you've modded for me. Would it be possible for to demo something and post my thoughts here...maybe with some sound clips?
Brad
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 29, 2013 14:47:05 GMT -6
Hey Jim, that sounds really interesting. I'd love to hear a comparison of your pre and some others . The change in the music business paradigm certainly has affected many of us negatively. I did a demo video of a Warm Audio WA12 and posted it on youtube. Bryce from Warm's a great guy, and I wanted to give something like that a try to see if I enjoyed doing it. It occurred to me along the way, that I used to be paid between $4,000 and $6,000 for the same kind of thing I was now doing for free. (I used to write and produce music for radio and TV bet. 1981 and 1988).
Is there some way I could hear something done with your preamp?
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Post by wiz on Jul 29, 2013 14:54:14 GMT -6
I am doing some related stuff atm.
I am having a tinker with preamp building.
I did a test yesterday, with two really good commercial preamps and my breadboarded one yesterday using three sm57s on my vocal. I used
The sm57 so I could get the same take. (The wife walked in the studio (she is a singer) and immediately burst into laughter seeing the sm57s
Clustered together behind apop screen....)
It's really interesting.
My preamp is the quietest.
The only way to describe them, is different.
I am going to continue on with mine, I have ordered a transformer I am going to try as an input transformer and slowly tinker and futz about with different things.
I will post up the audio files later on today if you guys like.
I am somewhat in awe of jim Williams... 8)
I would love to use some of his preamps...
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 29, 2013 15:26:52 GMT -6
Good luck wiz. I did a popular commercial for a big retail chain in NYC called The Wiz back in the 80's !
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