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Post by odyssey76 on Mar 24, 2016 7:51:40 GMT -6
There's been a lot of EQ talk recently and so I've been thinking about a new approach. I've always put the EQ first in the mix chain. Usually it's the Logic X linear phase EQ. I use it to mostly cut unwanted frequencies but every now and then I'll do a gentle boost for sweetening with the same EQ. So....... I beginning to think that the sweetening (boost) should come after all other inserts so you know what your final sound is. I've seen the words "sweetening" and "focus" thrown around for this application and preferably hardware. I know the Kush Electra sweetens and focuses a vocal and snare like no other I've used but haven't used a lot of outboard EQ. What are some preferences for both sweetening and focus. I read noah shain say the 553f focuses guitars this way. Sounds very similar to my experience with the Electra's. I would assume a Pultec for bass and kick since it tightens the low end so much? What else do you guys use. I could use a lot more focus
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 24, 2016 8:34:02 GMT -6
Hey J, for myself it's, HP/LP filter, compress, eq... generally, i do believe the eq into a compressor thing is popular with SSL guys
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Post by Ward on Mar 24, 2016 8:37:55 GMT -6
Hey J, for myself it's, HP/LP filter, compress, eq... generally, i do believe the eq into a compressor thing is popular with SSL guys It has been argued that the SSL is more a part of the SSL mix engineer guys' sound than the mix engineers themselves.
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Post by noah shain on Mar 24, 2016 11:52:37 GMT -6
Well I used the 553 for the first time on a mix and put them on the guitar bus. It's rhythm and lead guitars together but not solos. So all ensemble elements.
I'm mixing guitars in to a bus compressor...in this case it was a pair of new-Ish 1176. Once I had the basic mix/balance going, like 2 hours in to the mix, I added maybe 2 hash marks of the mid and just clicked the high band out of the detent, boosting. Low pass filter in on the middle setting (can't remember what the number is) and high pass on (can't remember that number either but I usually end up between 100-150). Subtle. It just sharpened the focus of the guitar picture...like a little lift. I usually keep rhythm guitar stuff out of the middle except in rare cases. So this focusing kinda made the guitars feel wider too. It's not a big difference at all but turn off the Eq and...blah. The guitars and consequently the whole mix, seemed a little less vibrant.
This is after channel Eq and compression for individual elements so it's not surgery...it's sweetening for sure. I keep a few pairs or stereo Eqs set aside for bus duty like that. A retro 2a3, a pair of maags, 553s, a pair of AWTAC channels, the Overstayer VCA has bass/treble type knobs. For me these are like 1% or 2 % sweeteners. I think of them like cheats for some reason.
I always think "I gotta find 100 ways to make this sound 1% better" so little tiny Eq boosts start to add up and seem to help refine things a notch here and there.
That Maag 40hz band is really powerful. I perceive it like a baxandall shelf but I don't know if that's what it is. But man...1 click of that band is like photoshop or something. It's addictive and easy to overdo but it's pretty great.
All that said, the 553 on individual guitars is killer too. I'm not a big Eq booster except in rare occasions. I'm always curious and inspired when I hear about people doing drastic Eq and I try all the time but usually it's only on the vocal for me, in combination with cuts. Like broad boost with narrower cuts within the same areas.
This goofball post is too long already. Blah blah blah.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 24, 2016 12:06:51 GMT -6
Well I used the 553 for the first time on a mix and put them on the guitar bus. It's rhythm and lead guitars together but not solos. So all ensemble elements. I'm mixing guitars in to a bus compressor...in this case it was a pair of new-Ish 1176. Once I had the basic mix/balance going, like 2 hours in to the mix, I added maybe 2 hash marks of the mid and just clicked the high band out of the detent, boosting. Low pass filter in on the middle setting (can't remember what the number is) and high pass on (can't remember that number either but I usually end up between 100-150). Subtle. It just sharpened the focus of the guitar picture...like a little lift. I usually keep rhythm guitar stuff out of the middle except in rare cases. So this focusing kinda made the guitars feel wider too. It's not a big difference at all but turn off the Eq and...blah. The guitars and consequently the whole mix, seemed a little less vibrant. This is after channel Eq and compression for individual elements so it's not surgery...it's sweetening for sure. I keep a few pairs or stereo Eqs set aside for bus duty like that. A retro 2a3, a pair of maags, 553s, a pair of AWTAC channels, the Overstayer VCA has bass/treble type knobs. For me these are like 1% or 2 % sweeteners. I think of them like cheats for some reason. I always think "I gotta find 100 ways to make this sound 1% better" so little tiny Eq boosts start to add up and seem to help refine things a notch here and there. That Maag 40hz band is really powerful. I perceive it like a baxandall shelf but I don't know if that's what it is. But man...1 click of that band is like photoshop or something. It's addictive and easy to overdo but it's pretty great. All that said, the 553 on individual guitars is killer too. I'm not a big Eq booster except in rare occasions. I'm always curious and inspired when I hear about people doing drastic Eq and I try all the time but usually it's only on the vocal for me, in combination with cuts. Like broad boost with narrower cuts within the same areas. This goofball post is too long already. Blah blah blah. The" I always think I gotta find 100 ways to make this 1% better!" Noah you just summed up what this vocation really is all about ! But I'll add one thing, the skill is knowing when and which of those things is going to work on this track!
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Post by svart on Mar 24, 2016 12:12:33 GMT -6
Hey J, for myself it's, HP/LP filter, compress, eq... generally, i do believe the eq into a compressor thing is popular with SSL guys It has been argued that the SSL is more a part of the SSL mix engineer guys' sound than the mix engineers themselves. Well, we do choose gear for the tone of the gear and the things it does for us, don't we?
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Post by Ward on Mar 24, 2016 20:52:46 GMT -6
It has been argued that the SSL is more a part of the SSL mix engineer guys' sound than the mix engineers themselves. Well, we do choose gear for the tone of the gear and the things it does for us, don't we? I suppose we do... but there is something very 'Lord Alge' to every mix that has ever been done on every SSL. Do you know what I mean?
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Post by svart on Mar 25, 2016 5:59:36 GMT -6
Well, we do choose gear for the tone of the gear and the things it does for us, don't we? I suppose we do... but there is something very 'Lord Alge' to every mix that has ever been done on every SSL. Do you know what I mean? They do indeed have a specific sonic footprint. I don't think the console was meant to have this sound, but most users tend to push the boards into an area that some call the "sweet spot". I tend to think it's really just getting the bussing levels up high enough that you start to round everything off as the amps become non-linear. Effectively a compression effect. That's what I think I hear from them most often.
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Post by Ward on Mar 25, 2016 9:15:25 GMT -6
You mean the 'crunch' of the SSL svart? Does the crunch come from the buss comp or is it inherent to the busses and master buss itself as we tend to hit the amps at their absolutely limit and push them into distortion?
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Post by svart on Mar 25, 2016 9:40:20 GMT -6
You mean the 'crunch' of the SSL svart ? Does the crunch come from the buss comp or is it inherent to the busses and master buss itself as we tend to hit the amps at their absolutely limit and push them into distortion? Yeah, the crunch I guess you could call it, although I was thinking more like "gooey". I think it's inherent to pushing the busses hard, not necessarily the main bus compressor itself(although they did use a lot of similar amp sections, so I'm sure you could push it as well). i think it's mainly the act of pushing the opamps until they start to run into headroom limits more than anything, especially the bus summing amps in the old 4/6K series. Those were a little bit slower than the 9K and beyond, so the sound of the 4k being pushed is much more pronounced than in the newer stuff when you're trying to sum so many channels at the limits of the amplifiers. It explains why a lot of heavy rock and metal guys swear by the 4K/6K stuff and avoid the 9K and newer stuff.
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Post by Ward on Mar 25, 2016 10:21:27 GMT -6
You mean the 'crunch' of the SSL svart ? Does the crunch come from the buss comp or is it inherent to the busses and master buss itself as we tend to hit the amps at their absolutely limit and push them into distortion? Yeah, the crunch I guess you could call it, although I was thinking more like "gooey". I think it's inherent to pushing the busses hard, not necessarily the main bus compressor itself(although they did use a lot of similar amp sections, so I'm sure you could push it as well). i think it's mainly the act of pushing the opamps until they start to run into headroom limits more than anything, especially the bus summing amps in the old 4/6K series. Those were a little bit slower than the 9K and beyond, so the sound of the 4k being pushed is much more pronounced than in the newer stuff when you're trying to sum so many channels at the limits of the amplifiers. It explains why a lot of heavy rock and metal guys swear by the 4K/6K stuff and avoid the 9K and newer stuff. I couldn't agree more with you on that!! Too bad the 4000s and 6000s are such electricity hogsm otherwise I'd have one too... but I can't afford the ticket!!! $1000 a month just to run the console? Ludicrous.
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Post by svart on Mar 25, 2016 11:32:57 GMT -6
Yeah, the crunch I guess you could call it, although I was thinking more like "gooey". I think it's inherent to pushing the busses hard, not necessarily the main bus compressor itself(although they did use a lot of similar amp sections, so I'm sure you could push it as well). i think it's mainly the act of pushing the opamps until they start to run into headroom limits more than anything, especially the bus summing amps in the old 4/6K series. Those were a little bit slower than the 9K and beyond, so the sound of the 4k being pushed is much more pronounced than in the newer stuff when you're trying to sum so many channels at the limits of the amplifiers. It explains why a lot of heavy rock and metal guys swear by the 4K/6K stuff and avoid the 9K and newer stuff. I couldn't agree more with you on that!! Too bad the 4000s and 6000s are such electricity hogsm otherwise I'd have one too... but I can't afford the ticket!!! $1000 a month just to run the console? Ludicrous. IKR? I've been eyeing some short framed 24ch 4K's over the years kinda waiting for the prices to come down. They're almost affordable, but the age is showing in the amount of upkeep they need, which is a big cost of owning.. The power hogging and the cooling bills are something else entirely!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 25, 2016 12:53:54 GMT -6
It has been argued that the SSL is more a part of the SSL mix engineer guys' sound than the mix engineers themselves. Well, we do choose gear for the tone of the gear and the things it does for us, don't we? In the case of SSL , not as much, everybody bought SSL because the automation and everything else was going to speed up workflow, guys like the Alge's developed a workflow and stuck with it. Over time many started to find a vibe to the SSL sound but it was like PT, it made turn over quicker , you could recall and everybody bought them thinking they could turn the room quicker and that meant more $$.
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