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Post by lpedrum on Mar 23, 2016 9:51:10 GMT -6
We've all been there. The full-band production is almost done but the artist wants to add a song of just vocal and acoustic guitar. There's nothing wrong with that of course. But getting a solo track to compete and live sonically on a fully produced CD can be tricky.
So...what are your tricks and techniques for mixing solo voice and acoustic guitar? I'd also love to hear RGO members thoughts on what records they think really excel at this.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 23, 2016 10:08:47 GMT -6
I'm not sure what style you're working on, but Angeles fits well in the Either/Or album by Elliott Smith. Also, I Will Follow You Into the Dark by Death Cab for Cutie on the Plans album.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 23, 2016 10:15:17 GMT -6
Put two mics up for the guitar, one over the right shoulder, the other facing the sound hole. The'll be just different enough to be able to be panned L&R without serious phase issues. if possible, record guitar first, vocal next. If they must be done at the same time, use SCD's for the guitar, LDC for vocal, pan guitars L&R. It's my favorite technique so far..
Fast forward to 2:48. Guitars were done with stereo Soyuz 0-11's, vocals later with the Soyuz 0-11.
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Post by svart on Mar 23, 2016 11:23:03 GMT -6
Do them separately. Partially because people tend to sway and move a lot while playing acoustic, partially for the ability to isolate the vocals or instrument during mixing.
Get the vocals *right* and then fit the acoustic to them using mic choice and positioning and you'll be a lot happier this way.
I've done a couple dozen acoustic sessions and this is the best way I've found to make a competing acoustic mix.
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 23, 2016 11:48:56 GMT -6
IMO Distance is king, Ldc's slightly OOP, different mics/pre's in stereo is cool, it allows you to process them gently and get them to pan out separate left right subtlely, leaving a beautiful hole up with the middle for ur vox, and gives SIZE for competing, then a great stereo verb brings u home. I personally don't like SDC's on vox/AC recordings, too fast and small. If u must track simultaneously, use high Q ribbons for their rejection, and sweetening eq's
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 18:34:49 GMT -6
Recording seperately can lead to worse performance if the performer feels uncomfortable in doing so instead of like he is used to perform the song ... so sometimes it might be better to live with imperfections like svart mentioned for getting a better take.
I guess it depends a lot on the musician's skills and preferences if seperate recording gives a better result or not...
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Post by lpedrum on Mar 23, 2016 21:00:29 GMT -6
I'm not sure what style you're working on, but Angeles fits well in the Either/Or album by Elliott Smith. Also, I Will Follow You Into the Dark by Death Cab for Cutie on the Plans album. The Elliott Smith tune is certainly a way to go wide. It works well with that under sung style of singing--wouldn't work well for everyone though. I would guess he actually doubled his singing and playing on ANGELES. Any insights into how that track was done? |
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Post by lpedrum on Mar 23, 2016 21:06:59 GMT -6
Put two mics up for the guitar, one over the right shoulder, the other facing the sound hole. The'll be just different enough to be able to be panned L&R without serious phase issues. if possible, record guitar first, vocal next. If they must be done at the same time, use SCD's for the guitar, LDC for vocal, pan guitars L&R. It's my favorite technique so far.. Fast forward to 2:48. Guitars were done with stereo Soyuz 0-11's, vocals later with the Soyuz 0-11. Great track Martin. I've done solo acoustic tracks many ways--separate, together, mono guitar, stereo guitar etc. Recording the vocals and guitar separately leaves room for more mixing options, but not every artist can cut themselves in two like that and maintain their artistry. I guess I'm more curious about what other mix engineers do when they're handed a guitar vocal track that was recorded together with a mono mic on the guitar. I have my go to tricks, but still feel I could improve at this task. |
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Post by lpedrum on Mar 23, 2016 21:14:25 GMT -6
IMO Distance is king, Ldc's slightly OOP, different mics/pre's in stereo is cool, it allows you to process them gently and get them to pan out separate left right subtlely, leaving a beautiful hole up with the middle for ur vox, and gives SIZE for competing, then a great stereo verb brings u home. I personally don't like SDC's on vox/AC recordings, too fast and small. If u must track simultaneously, use high Q ribbons for their rejection, and sweetening eq's Interesting. So you're saying that stereo miking the guitar with different mics and pres mics gives you a more distinct sense of the stereo field than using an identical pair of mics through the same pres? I've been using the Samar ribbon recently on guitar in this situation, especially with female vocals. I really don't like the vocal bleed through a SDC either. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 23, 2016 22:14:04 GMT -6
IMO Distance is king, Ldc's slightly OOP, different mics/pre's in stereo is cool, it allows you to process them gently and get them to pan out separate left right subtlely, leaving a beautiful hole up with the middle for ur vox, and gives SIZE for competing, then a great stereo verb brings u home. I personally don't like SDC's on vox/AC recordings, too fast and small. If u must track simultaneously, use high Q ribbons for their rejection, and sweetening eq's Interesting. So you're saying that stereo miking the guitar with different mics and pres mics gives you a more distinct sense of the stereo field than using an identical pair of mics through the same pres? I've been using the Samar ribbon recently on guitar in this situation, especially with female vocals. I really don't like the vocal bleed through a SDC either. Yeah, stereo mic'd with same mics/pre's wants to mono up panned hard right/left, even if the mics are spaced, diff mic/pre per side tends to seperate, skewing phase can also help till it hurts haha, different enough to make the AG big, same enough to sound like a single guitar. let us know what u end up doing 8) |
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 26, 2016 18:25:11 GMT -6
Put two mics up for the guitar, one over the right shoulder, the other facing the sound hole. The'll be just different enough to be able to be panned L&R without serious phase issues. if possible, record guitar first, vocal next. If they must be done at the same time, use SCD's for the guitar, LDC for vocal, pan guitars L&R. It's my favorite technique so far.. Fast forward to 2:48. Guitars were done with stereo Soyuz 0-11's, vocals later with the Soyuz 0-11. I always knew there was a reason why I like Springsteens Nebraska done on a Tascam 4 Track casette machine... I think home made song demos have a vibe which I like.... its RAW its there and you feel a fresh as it can be vibe.... well done.... |
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Post by jazznoise on Mar 26, 2016 19:03:01 GMT -6
IMO Distance is king, Ldc's slightly OOP, different mics/pre's in stereo is cool, it allows you to process them gently and get them to pan out separate left right subtlely, leaving a beautiful hole up with the middle for ur vox, and gives SIZE for competing, then a great stereo verb brings u home. I personally don't like SDC's on vox/AC recordings, too fast and small. If u must track simultaneously, use high Q ribbons for their rejection, and sweetening eq's AB pairs are great like this for situations where you'll also have a very central, mono idea that's also important. They just have excellent separation. I don't do this much, but I've usually gone for a fig 8. on the guitar and an LDC on the vocal and then maybe a pair of room mics. I have a 12 string I mounted an electric guitar pickup on, so sometimes I'll also take a feed of that and put it through an amp or run it into a DI. This means the performance can basically be kept, but there can be spot edits to the vocals if needs be. Piezo DI's can die in a fire, the odd time I do a FOH gig I run them as a backup as hideous garbage is slightly better than no guitar. |
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