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Post by rowmat on Feb 27, 2016 21:07:02 GMT -6
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Post by chasmanian on Feb 28, 2016 5:16:14 GMT -6
I just found out about it yesterday.
have been reading about it.
I've read good and not so good.
there are posts at PianoWorld forum.
quite a bunch.
Steve Nathan at the Keyboard Corner forum likes it a lot.
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Post by M57 on Feb 28, 2016 5:52:58 GMT -6
There are great piano samples out there. It's artifacts like pedal noise and sympathetic vibrations (with and without sustain) that ruin them. I'm guessing that the Hammersmith sustain feature is probably just an across the board sample, i.e. it includes notes that have been played. Much less likely is that it includes an emulation of the effects of overtones (harmonic series) based on which keys are depressed. That said, I'm sure sustain sampling makes a pretty big difference.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Feb 28, 2016 8:46:36 GMT -6
From my own experience, the following are great-sounding and extremely usable libraries:
Ivory2 American Concert D
Ravenscroft 275
Cinesamples Piano In Blue
Alicia's Keys (has some tuning/phase issues, but still sounds great)
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Post by chasmanian on Feb 28, 2016 10:18:22 GMT -6
From my own experience, the following are great-sounding and extremely usable libraries: Ivory2 American Concert D Ravenscroft 275 Cinesamples Piano In Blue Alicia's Keys (has some tuning/phase issues, but still sounds great) hey Chuck, I have the first 2 you mention. and I will play them today. I just figured out that I should play them with 2 speakers. I've been playing a synth, that has a combination left/mono out. I only hook up 1 speaker to it. and I have mono. I play Ivory ACD and Ravenscroft, through a digital piano. I thought I was doing the same kind of thing. I'm not. I've only been playing the left channel (not mono). now I will hook up both speakers, and with the stereo out, get the full piano keyboard coming out of 2 speakers, instead of missing the higher side of the keyboard. |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Feb 28, 2016 12:05:51 GMT -6
Lol what? You mean you've been using them outside of a daw/interface/monitors situation???
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Post by chasmanian on Feb 28, 2016 12:26:44 GMT -6
never with a DAW.
I play them through an interface and monitors.
somehow, I had just assumed that it would be a mono thing.
did not think it through with the stereo bit.
my synth's combination left/mono out added to my lack of clarity.
just firing up my digital piano with 2 speakers for Ivory ACD and Ravenscroft now.
hey, do you know anything about Vienna Imperial?
I hear its really good.
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Post by rowmat on Feb 28, 2016 17:16:53 GMT -6
Thanks guys.
Think I'm leaning towards The Hammersmith Pro version as the different mics give plenty of tonal options.
Cheers
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 28, 2016 17:53:53 GMT -6
Listening to those song samples on there, this thing would be hard to beat for realism. Not only that, I don't know if I could ever record a piano that good. So in a mix?? Yeah, pretty sure you'd be covered with this one LOL.
The damn thing is 50 gigs though. BIG!!
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Post by chasmanian on Feb 28, 2016 18:06:39 GMT -6
similar size to Ivory II ACD.
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Post by Quint on Feb 28, 2016 20:59:12 GMT -6
There are great piano samples out there. It's artifacts like pedal noise and sympathetic vibrations (with and without sustain) that ruin them. I'm guessing that the Hammersmith sustain feature is probably just an across the board sample, i.e. it includes notes that have been played. Much less likely is that it includes an emulation of the effects of overtones (harmonic series) based on which keys are depressed. That said, I'm sure sustain sampling makes a pretty big difference. Are you saying that the artifacts of poor implementation of pedal noise and sympathetic vibrations are the problem or are you saying that things like pedal noise included in the samples are a bad thing? If it's the former, I'd point towards Imperfect Samples Braunschweiger as an example of realistic noise or "imperfection" done right, or at least better. If it's the latter, I guess I would ask what real piano doesn't have those types of imperfections? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 28, 2016 21:34:25 GMT -6
I think Piano In Blue is pretty kick ass.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 28, 2016 21:38:11 GMT -6
Wish I had that Decca tree with M49s
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Post by M57 on Feb 29, 2016 5:35:44 GMT -6
There are great piano samples out there. It's artifacts like pedal noise and sympathetic vibrations (with and without sustain) that ruin them. I'm guessing that the Hammersmith sustain feature is probably just an across the board sample, i.e. it includes notes that have been played. Much less likely is that it includes an emulation of the effects of overtones (harmonic series) based on which keys are depressed. That said, I'm sure sustain sampling makes a pretty big difference. Are you saying that the artifacts of poor implementation of pedal noise and sympathetic vibrations are the problem or are you saying that things like pedal noise included in the samples are a bad thing? If it's the former, I'd point towards Imperfect Samples Braunschweiger as an example of realistic noise or "imperfection" done right, or at least better. If it's the latter, I guess I would ask what real piano doesn't have those types of imperfections? A certain amount of pedal noise is a good thing. Hell, there are piano pieces that call for it. Many programs have a knob for that. Sympathetic vibrations consistent with overtones (harmonics) are essential for me, and I've got to believe the algorithms required to emulate that would bring most current systems to their knees. Go to a piano and press and hold down the keys making a C chord in the C4-5 range with your right hand such that there's no sound. Then with your left hand, play a staccato C2 and 3 octave. Listen for what vibrates. Then holding down the same C chord play an F2-3 octave and listen to the difference. That said, it's probably only a matter of time before off the shelf computers could handle that kind of load. Now when that happens.. |
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Post by Ward on Feb 29, 2016 8:34:43 GMT -6
Jazz pianists swear by Ivory.
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Post by Quint on Feb 29, 2016 11:22:24 GMT -6
Are you saying that the artifacts of poor implementation of pedal noise and sympathetic vibrations are the problem or are you saying that things like pedal noise included in the samples are a bad thing? If it's the former, I'd point towards Imperfect Samples Braunschweiger as an example of realistic noise or "imperfection" done right, or at least better. If it's the latter, I guess I would ask what real piano doesn't have those types of imperfections? Sympathetic vibrations consistent with overtones (harmonics) are essential for me, and I've got to believe the algorithms required to emulate that would bring most current systems to their knees. Can't disagree with you there. |
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Post by rowmat on Feb 29, 2016 12:02:27 GMT -6
There are great piano samples out there. It's artifacts like pedal noise and sympathetic vibrations (with and without sustain) that ruin them. I'm guessing that the Hammersmith sustain feature is probably just an across the board sample, i.e. it includes notes that have been played. Much less likely is that it includes an emulation of the effects of overtones (harmonic series) based on which keys are depressed. That said, I'm sure sustain sampling makes a pretty big difference. According to the website.... "... Real Sustain Pedal sampling (all keys, 21 velocity layers)..."The standard version (2 pairs of mics) has over 10,000 samples while the Pro Version (6 pairs of mics) is over 30,000 samples. Based upon the number of samples using 21 velocity layers recorded with sustain off and sustain on it would appear that the above statement is correct. Pedal noise, damper noise etc are all individually adjustable. Attachment Deleted |
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Post by M57 on Feb 29, 2016 12:19:25 GMT -6
There are great piano samples out there. It's artifacts like pedal noise and sympathetic vibrations (with and without sustain) that ruin them. I'm guessing that the Hammersmith sustain feature is probably just an across the board sample, i.e. it includes notes that have been played. Much less likely is that it includes an emulation of the effects of overtones (harmonic series) based on which keys are depressed. That said, I'm sure sustain sampling makes a pretty big difference. According to the website.... "... Real Sustain Pedal sampling (all keys, 21 velocity layers)..."The standard version (2 pairs of mics) has over 10,000 samples while the Pro Version (6 pairs of mics) is over 30,000 samples. Based upon the number of samples using 21 velocity layers recorded with sustain off and sustain on it would appear that the above statement is correct. Pedal noise, damper noise etc are all individually adjustable. There's a difference between "sustain on" and "keys pressed". Not to mention the cumulative effect when multiple notes having overlapping harmonic signatures are played - but what is described sounds like a major step for the industry. |
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Post by rowmat on Feb 29, 2016 12:46:25 GMT -6
According to the website.... "... Real Sustain Pedal sampling (all keys, 21 velocity layers)..."The standard version (2 pairs of mics) has over 10,000 samples while the Pro Version (6 pairs of mics) is over 30,000 samples. Based upon the number of samples using 21 velocity layers recorded with sustain off and sustain on it would appear that the above statement is correct. Pedal noise, damper noise etc are all individually adjustable. There's a difference between "sustain on" and "keys pressed". Not to mention the cumulative effect when multiple notes having overlapping harmonic signatures are played - but what is described sounds like a major step for the industry. I read it as "sustain on" as in pedal down with all other strings in sympathetic resonance with the key being pressed. For the 'sustain component' every key is then individually sampled like this at 21 velocity levels per key. |
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Post by chasmanian on Feb 29, 2016 13:43:53 GMT -6
I have read that Hammersmith is resource intensive.
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Post by keymod on Feb 29, 2016 14:28:18 GMT -6
Can Hammersmith be used standalone? I didn't see that reference.
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Post by sozocaps on Feb 29, 2016 14:39:54 GMT -6
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Post by chasmanian on Feb 29, 2016 14:54:55 GMT -6
Can Hammersmith be used standalone? I didn't see that reference. yes. I just found this: "A KONTAKT Instrument can be best described as a collection of sounds running within the free KONTAKT 5 PLAYER or the full version, KONTAKT 5. Both KONTAKT 5 PLAYER and KONTAKT 5 can be used as a stand-alone instrument or as a plug-in (VST/ AU/RTAS) in your favorite host sequencer / DAW." |
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Post by keymod on Feb 29, 2016 15:14:02 GMT -6
Okay, thanks. But it needs the Kontact player
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Post by chasmanian on Feb 29, 2016 15:21:58 GMT -6
looks like 100% yes.
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