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Post by drbill on Feb 2, 2016 17:21:38 GMT -6
....just curious, .......or perhaps terminally bored.  We finally have sound comparison clips up for the Silver Bullet on the Louder Than Liftoff website. Click on the "sound clips" tab. store.louderthanliftoff.com/collections/all/products/silver-bullet-drbills-stereo-tone-amp?variant=11714266115From Brad : Hi all,
After much anticipation, I finally posted sound clips that Bill wrote and has helped prepare.
Each sound clip link will download a ZIP file containing two tracks: one is a dry ITB mix, and one is a mix processed through the Silver Bullet. All the files are 24 bit, 44.1k. These should line up in your DAW so that you can A/B between them easily. There are comments provided by Bill that detail his sonic goal for each clip. Please note that the tracks may not RMS-matched in all cases. For some of these clips, the goal was increased crest factor, which the Silver Bullet excels at. Feel free to match tracks by RMS or peak levels at your discretion to evaluate in the manner you feel is most relevant to you. Also, Bill provided me setting information for each clip, but I chose to leave that off the website, just to keep things concise. If anyone is curious about the particular settings used for a given clip, just ask and we'll be happy to share that info here.
If anyone has any problems downloading the tracks, please send me an email.
Thanks guys! Enjoy!
Brad |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 2, 2016 18:35:02 GMT -6
Ok, I'm impressed. And I did pull these in and peak matched them on the first transient. And I'm still impressed. Sounds like a console. How hard was you hitting the input on that Silence mix?
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 2, 2016 18:45:33 GMT -6
And I can't seem to see the face in those website pics very well. My eyes aren't the best. Got a better picture of what the knobs are and do?
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 2, 2016 19:03:07 GMT -6
oooo...looking forward to listening!
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Post by drbill on Feb 2, 2016 19:07:24 GMT -6
Thanks CCM. I'm super excited to see people getting and listening to the box and "getting it". It's been a long journey.....
Yeah, I believe I peak matched all files pretty closely, but I didn't RMS match due to the intrinsic nature of what the box actually does. I wanted people to understand that op-amp/transformer shaving of transients is a large part of that "traditional console" sound (old timers call it "gain staging"), and that you can get some pretty amazing "loudness" things going on by how you gain stage and/or push the box.
Of course, by all means Brad and I would encourage guys to both Peak and RMS match to get a feel for the Sound of processed vs. unprocessed as well as the loudness factor the SB can impart when pushed hard. After all, loudness is not everything, but it's cool to be able to push the drums like I did on the first drums clip and get that amount of ambience blooming before you even start compressing with a "compressor/limiter". Those drums are 100% dry and unprocessed. Just mics to pre's to converters - then into the SB. No compression or EQ during tracking or in the DAW.
On Silence, I didn't really push it super hard. I believe I was on the N side of the Mojo amps, and was pushing things "moderately". Gain and Output in the 12:00 range - with Gain maybe 1-2 clicks past 12:00 and Output 1-2 clicks lower than 12:00. (you can count detents for recall) That song has a lot of LMFreq's in it, and I didn't like it when I got pushing harder than where I ended up - started getting a bit smearier than I wanted. Vintage filter was OUT because I was going for a more modern sound, and the TIGHT HPF was OUT because I was looking for some very low bass. There was a little push in the SUB LF and the AIR HF.
It's perhaps interesting to note that on that song, I put the Silver Bullet on AFTER final mix. Almost as a post-mix Mastering thing (minus compression/limiting). Unlike the next song "Shaken Not Stirred" where I mixed INTO the Silver Bullet.
Hope that answers your question. I'm happy to field any other questions or thoughts on any of the clips.
Cheers,
bp
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Post by drbill on Feb 2, 2016 19:18:55 GMT -6
And I can't seem to see the face in those website pics very well. My eyes aren't the best. Got a better picture of what the knobs are and do? I'll see what I can do. I just went there, and yeah, I'd have to agree with you. Hard to read. I'll talk with Brad about that. That's his domain. In the meantime, I've requested a more high rez pic from him and if I don't get it tonight, I'll whip out a camera and take a pic myself. :-) |
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Post by drbill on Feb 2, 2016 19:34:44 GMT -6
  You might try dragging these off and viewing them larger, but bottom line, from L to R : 1. The MODE switch which allows you to select between Mix, Tracking, Mic and Mic+ modes. When using Mic or Mic + you have the option of 48V and reverse polarity. Brad's got the impedance on mic+ tweaked to his favorite setting for Ribbons and Dynamics. 2. The heart of the Beast. The MOJO section that allows you to use A, N, A cascaded into N, or N Cascaded into A. There's a mojo on/off switch below the Mojo selector. The next 2 knobs are the A Gain and Output pots, the the next 2 knobs are the N Gain and Output pots. This is where the Mojo happens. :-) The gain staging pretty much all happens here. Then comes the filters and EQ's.... Tight is essentially a unique Brad-ized HPF. Tone is the EQ on/off switch. Then the LF EQ boost/cut pot, Freq selects for both the LF and HF frees, then the HF EQ boost/cut pot, and...... Vintage on/off which is a very special filter that massages the High End contour of the Silver Bullet to match that of a particularly favorite UK discrete console. :-) Then you got the meters. Hopefully you can read the nomenclature on the pics, but if not, there's the basics. Also, you can download the Silver Bullet manual here.... There's some really cool background on what, where, who and why in there along with application notes, etc. cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0574/4353/files/LTL_Silver_Bullet_User_Manual_DRAFT_110715.pdf?17959249964346378014_ |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 2, 2016 20:05:18 GMT -6
OK - that's impressive!
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 2, 2016 20:05:41 GMT -6
Very descriptive, thanks. I see one issue right off the bat. If this is to be a summing amp, used much like the master section of a console, wouldn't it have made sense to to put a simple monitor output on so that it could be attenuated? I mean like my console has monitor outs as well as mix outs. So I'm printing exactly what I'm hearing. To be able to do that with this, I'd have to incorporate another monitor solution or I could use it as an external effect insert which would add another round of conversion.
Just me thinking out loud here but this would be an end all solution with monitor outs and a simple remote to an attenuation knob.
Correct me if I'm missing something.
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Post by drbill on Feb 2, 2016 20:28:09 GMT -6
CCM - to clarify (just in case you're missing something....)
No, this is not a summing box. In a real sense, it’s Brad and my solution to what we believe simple summing boxes SHOULD have been. (That's a deep subject for another thread....but in a nutshell, we both believe that summing is not where the mojo happens, but rather what is FOLLOWING the summing....)
As far as monitor controls, we talked about that and decided that most wouldn't use it in that fashion, although it certainly COULD be used that way if it had those controls. It would have necessitated a higher price, probably another RU of rack space, and a redesign of what is already an incredibly complicated box - although the controls may belie that fact. Plus, if we did that, we probably would have added a bunch of other stuff too..... LOL And then the price is over $3k......
So.....no. It doesn't have a monitor output, but you ARE printing exactly what you are hearing. I think the confusion may lie in you thinking this is to be used POST DAW and Pre whatever you are mixing to. That's not really how it's designed to be used, but it could be used in that fashion, and if done that way, your comment makes perfect sense. The Silver Bullet is designed to be placed as an analog insert on the DAW 2 bus via hardware i/o. Alternatively, you can do as I do and go out a second set of hardware outputs on your DAW and print back INTO the DAW on a stereo track in sync with the raw tracks. However you would normally monitor your DAW is how you will monitor it with the Silver Bullet in place.
Make sense now? Not sure I described it the best.....
It's not meant to REPLACE a console, just to SOUND like one. OR two.
As an aside, another usage is to place on the insert of your console. Tony can change his uber clean SC into an API or NEVE flavored console by dropping a SB on the insert of the 2 bus of his console - or even a couple channel strip inserts. Works especially great with transparent consoles like Brad and my D&R's or other non-discrete class A designs.
Also - as an aside, and just for the record - there's zero "summing" going on in the Silver Bullet. "Summing" seems to have taken on a new meaning these days - i.e. anything outside the box, but in the literal, traditional usage, there is no summing in the Silver Bullet. There is a mode for using it with Passive Summing Mixers though. It's called Fulcrom mode, and can be internally jumpered to make more sense to use with a passive summing box (or cable) if you're using one. Check the manual for more details on this.
And please, if I missed your point, let me know and I'll try again. The manual might be a good source of info if you're interested.
bp
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 2, 2016 21:09:23 GMT -6
No that cleared it up. I probably think differently than most because I nearly always print off the console. Seldom print from a daw bounce unless I'm in a terrible rush. A hardware insert would work fine and that's how most would use it. I could still use a summing amp like this and print off of it but I'd have to split the signal, a pair to converter channels and a pair to a monitor controller. I love what my console does but they all have issues. Mine has channel issues right now that are out of calibration. And the problem with consoles are they are too hard to work on. I' am looking for a smaller solution.
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Post by drbill on Feb 2, 2016 21:17:48 GMT -6
"I could still use a summing box like this....."
Again, it's not a summing amp, but if you want something streamlined, get yourself a Fulcrum passive summer and run the SB after it.
I hear ya on the console thing. I have just made the decision (a pretty tough one for me) to go Hybrid, and retire the console - using the SB and all my great outboard on hardware inserts in the DAW. A workflow change, no doubt, but the right decision for me acoustically and workflow wise these days....
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Post by lolo on Feb 2, 2016 22:33:09 GMT -6
Hey DrBill, Havent listened yet. Will do later tonight when im in the studio.
Just to clarify, the SB can be used as a standard mic pre too right?
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Post by drbill on Feb 2, 2016 23:14:26 GMT -6
Yes. API, Neve, or a combination of both - which is unique and a "one of a kind" flavor.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 4, 2016 17:41:23 GMT -6
If anyone is grabbing one, buy from my link and give me some rewards.  r.sloyalty.com/r/uuX8ehSMZinK |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 4, 2016 19:06:13 GMT -6
Didn't I read somewhere that there aren't any more available? Or am I making that up?
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Post by drbill on Feb 4, 2016 20:14:38 GMT -6
The last one "in stock" sold today. It will be a few weeks out before Brad has more in stock. You can order one now if you want to hold your spot in line and get the above mentioned discount code though.... Or wait.
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Post by lolo on Feb 4, 2016 22:42:56 GMT -6
Had a listen. Impressive. Quite interested. Is it my Birthday yet!!! Might be looking at a unit soon  Might need to make some changes first  and the Aussie $ is shit ass Any clips of the Pre's drbill ? Both A and N. Vocals, guitars etc..? Drums sounded good |
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Post by drbill on Feb 5, 2016 0:02:04 GMT -6
Hi Lolo - clips on instruments and vox are upcoming. Not sure what and when Brad will get those done, but they are "on the list" of things to get done. If you heard the mix and tracking clips, you probably have a good idea of what the pre's will sound. Solidly in the API/Neve camp, but not "clones". Cheers.
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Post by lolo on Feb 5, 2016 1:47:16 GMT -6
Listened to the silence mix. Like what i heard.
Was everything tracked through the SB?
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Post by drbill on Feb 5, 2016 10:14:03 GMT -6
On Silence, most elements were tracked "ITB" - i.e.: they were soft synths, samples, etc.. Guitars were tracked @ a buddy's house remotely - I think he has an older MOTU interface (not optimal). The Silver Bullet was slapped on the "MIX" at the last minute. Almost used like a Mastering processor. Hope that answers your questions. If not, fire away again. Cheers, bp
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Feb 5, 2016 13:56:22 GMT -6
can you guys make some videos showing how to use it?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 5, 2016 14:20:34 GMT -6
can you guys make some videos showing how to use it? Sarcasm? |
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Post by BradM on Feb 5, 2016 14:26:27 GMT -6
can you guys make some videos showing how to use it? Yes! Videos are at the top of my list including application specific videos to illustrate some of the setups in the manual. It will be like a video version of the manual in a sense. If there is something specific you'd like to see please let me know! Those last few units sure did go quickly. It was like putting steak in the dog's bowl....  Brad |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Feb 6, 2016 8:59:22 GMT -6
just walk us through a typical usage, visually. where you add it in the signal chain, ways you adjust the knobs, etc.. How you print thru it.
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and the Aussie $ is shit ass
