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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 25, 2016 9:59:48 GMT -6
Musician friends and audio engineers. This ad showed up on my Facebook page. $468 for some fancy foam with cutouts, really? If this was $46 I'd have to think on it, but would probably go for it. I'm sure it works, but there's gotta be a better way. I'm not about to start working on soundproofing in my apartment, as I plan to leave asap, but I'm curious, this product doesn't seem so complicated, other than than the wide variety of cutout sizes. Perhaps the material is special, but I imagine there could be something similar made with some absorptive foam that costs less than $100, no? www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/437626-REG/RPG_Diffusor_Systems_SKYEW_2_Skyline_Diffusor_2.htmlAttachments:
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 25, 2016 10:14:08 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 25, 2016 10:30:07 GMT -6
Thanks kcat, now those are $85 each, which seems much more reasonable,and they look attractive.
I realize this is a merry go-round that's hard to jump of of, once you jump on. I'm curious if manufacturers of acoustic foam treatments like the ones they sell at places like the Guitar Center at $40 for two panels of egg carton shape foam panels makes panels shaped like the ones I posted, with all different size foam extrusions. I kinda dig the look, but not the price.
I'd like to hear from some of the resident experts on the effectiveness of these too.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 25, 2016 11:51:32 GMT -6
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Post by Randge on Jan 25, 2016 12:04:04 GMT -6
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Post by mulmany on Jan 25, 2016 12:59:16 GMT -6
Musician friends and audio engineers. This ad showed up on my Facebook page. $468 for some fancy foam with cutouts, really? If this was $46 I'd have to think on it, but would probably go for it. I'm sure it works, but there's gotta be a better way. I'm not about to start working on soundproofing in my apartment, as I plan to leave asap, but I'm curious, this product doesn't seem so complicated, other than than the wide variety of cutout sizes. Perhaps the material is special, but I imagine there could be something similar made with some absorptive foam that costs less than $100, no? www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/437626-REG/RPG_Diffusor_Systems_SKYEW_2_Skyline_Diffusor_2.htmlRPG is the top dog of ready made acoustic treatment and solutions. They hold quite a few patents. They are well beyond what everyone else is doing... and with that comes a price. It's also not foam in the sense of the cheap egg crate GC special.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 25, 2016 16:05:30 GMT -6
there's a 2+ bdrm apartment in my building that is gonna open up feb 1st once they finish renovations, since you mentioned leaving your spot on the upper west side ASAP
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 25, 2016 16:44:02 GMT -6
That's really good of you, thanks Chuck.
Unfortunately, ASAP, means in a year or so, but thanks. My wife's doing well here, so relocating has to work for both of us. The thing is, I want to be in Nashville for a few reasons, but mainly because I think I'd be playing a lot more. All in good time hopefully.
Thanks Randge, that's exactly what I thought, there had to be some effective reasonable alternatives. That's not to say the RPG isn't worth it, but I wouldn't know, and was curious about some of the solutions you guys have come up with.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 25, 2016 17:15:48 GMT -6
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 25, 2016 18:04:13 GMT -6
Bookshelves and record racks work great in my experience!
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Post by M57 on Jan 25, 2016 18:17:44 GMT -6
Bookshelves and record racks work great in my experience! Good idea, but records are too expensive. Nevertheless, I have been looking into more 'natural' ways to create diffusion. You would think it would be easy seeing as my normal habitat is unorganized clutter, which over time probably closes in on fractal happiness.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 25, 2016 18:24:59 GMT -6
Bookshelves and record racks work great in my experience! Not in my experience. A friend of mime build two big qrds for my studio, a huge diffrence compared to the bookshelfs. For a reason I dont know RGO is not taking picturers today. Its a one dimensional QRD difussor. He used polystirol and did put one thin layer of hard wood on the end. Sounds fantastic .. tracking acoustic guitars. I can turn around the QRD and on the back is a large absorber. If I do not calculate the work, each was about 120 Euros.
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Post by jin167 on Jan 25, 2016 18:26:41 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 19:39:52 GMT -6
IMHO, you are right, MJB! There is not something very special about the material. I know, i know, there will be people that say it needs a special blabla.... But it is EPS. Styropor, styrofoam ....whatever you call it. I have heard from people who bought styrofoam diffusors from other manufacturers and were surprised it differed not much from the styrofoam that you throw away from packaging ... in fact it didn't at all. It is just styrofoam, get over it. You don't need to mix silver or gold into it and it is no alchemistic art. This stuff is most probably bought already in the right square dimension and cut to length for the skyline schemes. Remember Johns diffusor DIY? Just, that this is not wood, but industry styrofoam that is most probably cut with an electrically heated hot wire cutter, and that's all. Oh well. Yes. Magic special density. Sure...... Near 500 bucks? Wow.... I don't want to speculate how much of this is marketing and how much the brand name...
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 25, 2016 19:54:39 GMT -6
I thought the thing important about a diffuser other than being uniformly reflective was to introduce a randomization to the diffusion? We seem to be talking about material absorption which isn't diffusion ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 20:05:44 GMT -6
Exactly. The density of the styrofoam has only a huge impact on durability and sensitivity to physical damage. Not really on the diffusion. Minor differences in the surface roughness, maybe... As mrholmes already stated: You can DIY it with styrofoam for a fraction of the price. Or make a nice one with wood, but obviously these are much heavier...
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Post by iamasound on Jan 27, 2016 4:00:55 GMT -6
In 20 years time I'll only haves scattered memories of DIY diffusers.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 27, 2016 6:50:33 GMT -6
Exactly. The density of the styrofoam has only a huge impact on durability and sensitivity to physical damage. Not really on the diffusion. Minor differences in the surface roughness, maybe... As mrholmes already stated: You can DIY it with styrofoam for a fraction of the price. Or make a nice one with wood, but obviously these are much heavier... Ime, if u take 2 identically dimension rooms, one with drywall, 703, and laminate floor, and one with woodcoat walls, Roxul, and concrete floors, the latter will sound significantly better, a wood skyline has a diff sound than a polystyrene skyline, your room takes on the characteristics of the materials that it's built with, and that fill its space.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 27, 2016 9:30:47 GMT -6
This thread is an example of one of the reasons I never seem to venture into diffusion. Unlike absorption panels which are easy to diy and have a pretty easy to understand methodology of placement, there seems to be so much debate regarding diffusion-what kind, what materials, where to place etc. - that I just get confused and give up......
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 27, 2016 9:37:11 GMT -6
Tony makes an important point, even when a room is treated, how the rest of it sounds is the most important thing. I don't know what "woodcoat walls, and Roxul" are, but I'd sure want to find out if I ever get so far as treating a room.
About concrete floors, don't they get cold? Or do builders typically heat the floor?
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Post by M57 on Jan 27, 2016 9:46:22 GMT -6
This thread is an example of one of the reasons I never seem to venture into diffusion. Unlike absorption panels which are easy to diy and have a pretty easy to understand methodology of placement, there seems to be so much debate regarding diffusion-what kind, what materials, where to place etc. - that I just get confused and give up...... To compound the problem, in the bang-for-your-buck category, diffusors seems like the most expensive piece of the puzzle.
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Post by svart on Jan 27, 2016 10:11:00 GMT -6
One thing that needs mentioning, that the room has to be over a certain size for skyline type diffusion to be effective. I don't know the specific size but it's a lot larger than most home studios. Attempting to use diffusion in a small room only adds to additional complex reflections and modal issues..
For a small room, the only thing that should be considered is absorption, or binary type diffusion which works by selective absorption rather than through reflection.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 27, 2016 10:18:16 GMT -6
Tony makes an important point, even when a room is treated, how the rest of it sounds is the most important thing. I don't know what "woodcoat walls, and Roxul" are, but I'd sure want to find out if I ever get so far as treating a room. About concrete floors, don't they get cold? Or do builders typically heat the floor? I have acid stained concrete floors in my basement studio and they aren't too cold even in the mid of winter. They are a pain in the ass however to do a DIY, but I did it because it was going to cost - approx. $3,500.00 to have somebody else do it.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 27, 2016 10:18:19 GMT -6
Tony makes an important point, even when a room is treated, how the rest of it sounds is the most important thing. I don't know what "woodcoat walls, and Roxul" are, but I'd sure want to find out if I ever get so far as treating a room. About concrete floors, don't they get cold? Or do builders typically heat the floor? the material the diffusors and absorbers are made out of will contribute like everything else in the room, to the sound of the room. a lot of people call covering the walls with wood or panel "wainscot", i'm not sure of it's technical term? hence woodcoat... Roxul is a name brand for rockwool, or mineral wool, has a nice thing happening on the very little it reflects back into the room, 703 not so much ime. concrete is cold, but sounds oh so nice, next time you're in a home depot, clap your hands of sing and listen to the reflections coming off the floor, smooth and shiney 8) better with a high or absorbed ceiling for sure....
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 27, 2016 10:22:49 GMT -6
Thanks Tony :-)
My friend remodeled his farmhouse upstate NY. Since he redid the floors in concrete, they used some sort of heating element. Man that place is cozy. next time I see him, I'll ask about it.
I bet some of those wood panels in a small thin wood slat type style would offer some diffusion as well. Couldn't hurt, could it?
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