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Post by mrholmes on Jan 19, 2016 10:12:24 GMT -6
RGOs.
You may remember my problem with the to bass heavy mixes.
Now I re calibrated my ear and I am back where I came from….good so far.
Bass heavy music is not the exception today, its often the rule.
I even hear songs in Films where someone had to pump up the low end.
So far bases do make an impression to our hearing system.
But they eat up a lot of space/energy in the mix?
If the low end is too heavy its hard to get a good balance?
Would you agree?
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Post by svart on Jan 19, 2016 10:26:06 GMT -6
A lot of heavy mixes are not "bass" heavy, they use harmonic exciters to generate something called the "missing fundamental" which in layman's terms means that you can generate harmonics of a frequency, then cut the original frequency out, and your brain will interpret those harmonics as the missing frequency.
For example, you can take a tone at 60hz, generate harmonics at 120hz, 180hz, 240hz, etc, and then remove the 60hz while leaving the harmonics. Your brain will still "hear" the 60hz tone, even though it's not there.
This is how they make things sound bassy on small speakers these days. It's also how things like RennBass work.
So yes, it's extremely hard to do, because you are filling up the mid frequencies with harmonics that need to be balanced correctly or the mix become extremely muddy.
As I've always said, it take a LOT more time and effort to make a balanced loud mix than it does something open and airy sounding.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 19, 2016 12:15:29 GMT -6
it's all about HP and LP filtering, when used properly, they create focus and imaging stability in mixes, another trick is to temporarily insert a Linear Phase eq on the master, and band pass off everything below 400hz, and everything above 2k, you should hear equal representation of all instruments in the placement you desire while doing this.
BTW, HP'ing a bass and kick is a wise decision, for stereo music, anything below 25hz is making your drivers work for nothing and muddying the mix, and that will tax a lot of systems into poor performance.
another thing i do as a naked 2 bus guy is, i ride my master vs channel faders up as high as possible without clipping, to keep my overall level consistent around 80-83 db spl, this way my mixes never surprise me, and a mastering guy cant compress it into an unrecognizable critter. On my console the Master faders are simply bypassed wide open, so i have to manage via all channel faders alone 8)
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 19, 2016 18:13:58 GMT -6
So yes, it's extremely hard to do, because you are filling up the mid frequencies with harmonics that need to be balanced correctly or the mix become extremely muddy. As I've always said, it take a LOT more time and effort to make a balanced loud mix than it does something open and airy sounding. The rest was intresting too but I wasnt asking for residual listeneing. Taht is my expereince too if there is too much base contet it gets muddy. I like 2 of 10 mixes I do even on higher SPLs. Never heard that using a HP or LP creates a more stable image. Never heard about the idea with the LP-EQ will try it next time. Usally I check my mixes on NS 10 M as well as on a Behritone (Auratone Clone) and JBL Control 1G. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 19, 2016 20:27:20 GMT -6
So yes, it's extremely hard to do, because you are filling up the mid frequencies with harmonics that need to be balanced correctly or the mix become extremely muddy. As I've always said, it take a LOT more time and effort to make a balanced loud mix than it does something open and airy sounding. The rest was intresting too but I wasnt asking for residual listeneing. Taht is my expereince too if there is too much base contet it gets muddy. I like 2 of 10 mixes I do even on higher SPLs. Never heard that using a HP or LP creates a more stable image. Never heard about the idea with the LP-EQ will try it next time. Usally I check my mixes on NS 10 M as well as on a Behritone (Auratone Clone) and JBL Control 1G. ha, what i meant to say was "solidity", but i suppose stability isn't that far off, make no mistake about the importance of HP/LP filtering, pro's don't talk about it much because it's huge to there success. |
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 19, 2016 20:55:58 GMT -6
Intresting in my better mixes I make the observation that a great soundig kick drum sounds thin when soloed.
If I take a look at the ssl hpf its used very rude.
May I should make more rude use of hpf lpf.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 19, 2016 21:04:16 GMT -6
Intresting in my better mixes I make the observation that a great soundig kick drum sounds thin when soloed. If I take a look at the ssl hpf its used very rude. May I should make more rude use of hpf lpf. it's about focusing the fundamentals of instruments, certain filter curves flatter sources with reso bumps and dips in all the right places, i liken HP/LP filters to the lenses the eye doctor flips back and forth to test your eyes, for all intents and purposes, you should be able to take a well tracked recording, use nothing more than HP/LP filters, and get it sounding pretty darn good. |
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 19, 2016 22:01:41 GMT -6
Intresting in my better mixes I make the observation that a great soundig kick drum sounds thin when soloed. If I take a look at the ssl hpf its used very rude. May I should make more rude use of hpf lpf. it's about focusing the fundamentals of instruments, certain filter curves flatter sources with reso bumps and dips in all the right places, i liken HP/LP filters to the lenses the eye doctor flips back and forth to test your eyes, for all intents and purposes, you should be able to take a well tracked recording, use nothing more than HP/LP filters, and get it sounding pretty darn good. Good advise, last mix the kick was eating up all the headroom I decided to use it. But you now put my focous to listen for something very diffrent when using hpf lpf. When I did my first mixes I used hpf a lot by instinct, later someone told me that it causes too much phase issues,.... I went to not use them on everything, but maybe now this habit turned around again.... |
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