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Post by Quint on Jan 19, 2016 9:06:52 GMT -6
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 19, 2016 9:37:44 GMT -6
nice
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Post by warrenfirehouse on Jan 19, 2016 10:02:35 GMT -6
Looks sexxxxxxy. I bet it sounds wonderful too.
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Post by LesC on Jan 19, 2016 11:00:14 GMT -6
I keep getting "Error establishing a database connection" whenever I try to view the apogee site. Is it just me or are they (hopefully) down for maintenance or updates?
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Post by lpedrum on Jan 19, 2016 11:18:23 GMT -6
This is the text from the email I just received....Other than a touch screen it's unclear what upgrades or advantages it has over the Symphony I/O. Their site appears to be down.
Highlights:
Best AD/DA conversion of any Thunderbolt™ audio interface
Up to 32 channels of modular analog I/O with optional 8 mic preamps
Original Symphony I/O modules are compatible with new Mk II chassis
Best per-channel value of any interface in its category
Choice of Thunderbolt, Pro Tools® HD (Mac/PC) or Waves SoundGrid® connectivity
Ultra-low latency performance
Intuitive touchscreen display and front panel control
Designed in California, Built in the U.S.A.
Pricing/Availability:
Symphony I/O Mk II Thunderbolt - Now Shipping Worldwide
2x6 Configuration: $2295 USD
8x8 Configuration: $3295 USD
16x16 Configuration: $4295 USD
8x8+8MP Configuration: $4690 USD
Empty Mk II Thunderbolt Chassis (No I/O Modules): $1695 USD
Symphony I/O Mk II HD - Coming Spring 2016
Symphony I/O Mk II SoundGrid - Coming Fall 2016
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Post by LesC on Jan 19, 2016 12:36:05 GMT -6
OK, the site is back.
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Post by popmann on Jan 19, 2016 12:52:07 GMT -6
New:
Thunderbolt.
Control of the mixer/routing from the front panel. Likely not needing to use Maestro for a lot after initial config.
Soundgrid hardware connections.
New ADC design for the new modules (but can still use the old).
Where the analog inserts on the mic pre card always digitally routeable? So you can patch a handful of compressors and EQs and patch them in via Maestro as needed on whatever mic prior to ADC? That's a slick feature.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 19, 2016 13:33:28 GMT -6
just did a chat with Don Spracht of Apogee about it. New: AKM Chips on the AD Front, replacing the Cirrus Logic chips they used to use. he said there are 2 ADCs per analog input channel, so the 16x16 card has 32 ADCs on it. he was NOT sure how this is implemented. it might be 8ch per chip, or 2ch per chip, etc.. they built a new PSU popmann , the Inserts on the mic pre card have always been Pre-ADC. You can do that in Maestro now. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 19, 2016 13:45:30 GMT -6
just did a chat with Don Spracht of Apogee about it. New: AKM Chips on the AD Front, replacing the Cirrus Logic chips they used to use. he said there are 2 ADCs per analog input channel, so the 16x16 card has 32 ADCs on it. he was NOT sure how this is implemented. it might be 8ch per chip, or 2ch per chip, etc.. they built a new PSU popmann , the Inserts on the mic pre card have always been Pre-ADC. You can do that in Maestro now.  whaaaa? splain to me please.... Love the new avy name haha |
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lucas
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Post by lucas on Jan 19, 2016 13:49:43 GMT -6
just did a chat with Don Spracht of Apogee about it. New: AKM Chips on the AD Front, replacing the Cirrus Logic chips they used to use. he said there are 2 ADCs per analog input channel, so the 16x16 card has 32 ADCs on it. he was NOT sure how this is implemented. it might be 8ch per chip, or 2ch per chip, etc.. they built a new PSU popmann , the Inserts on the mic pre card have always been Pre-ADC. You can do that in Maestro now. Hi guys, Lucas from Apogee here. I will try to answer your questions the coming days about our new flagship. For those who don't know me, a very brief introduction. I do analog/hardware design for Apogee. Have been doing this for Apogee since 1998. My first ground up design was the Track 2. I have extensive studio experience; worked at Ocean Way Recording (LA) and Wisseloord Studios. I also have a live-sound background. Been an FOH mixing engineer for 10 years. Yes indeed. The MKII boards use two ADC's per channel. The part used is a 4 channel chip, so one chip serves one stereo pair. Cheers, Lucas |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 19, 2016 13:57:53 GMT -6
just did a chat with Don Spracht of Apogee about it. New: AKM Chips on the AD Front, replacing the Cirrus Logic chips they used to use. he said there are 2 ADCs per analog input channel, so the 16x16 card has 32 ADCs on it. he was NOT sure how this is implemented. it might be 8ch per chip, or 2ch per chip, etc.. they built a new PSU popmann , the Inserts on the mic pre card have always been Pre-ADC. You can do that in Maestro now. Hi guys, Lucas from Apogee here. I will try to answer your questions the coming days about our new flagship. For those who don't know me, a very brief introduction. I do analog/hardware design for Apogee. Have been doing this for Apogee since 1998. My first ground up design was the Track 2. I have extensive studio experience; worked at Ocean Way Recording (LA) and Wisseloord Studios. I also have a live-sound background. Been an FOH mixing engineer for 10 years. Yes indeed. The MKII boards use two ADC's per channel. The part used is a 4 channel chip, so one chip serves one stereo pair. Cheers, Lucas welcome Lucas, wow! that's nutz, can you explain the reasoning behind that implementation? how does that affect the specs/sound of the conversion, what is the AD chip brand you used? What is the channel count per chip on the DAC side? seems strange to double up on the AD side, and let the other side ride as is...? The use of double ADC chips per channel of conversion seems an awesome feat to me, why is it mentioned in such passing fashion on your site? i would think you would be lighting fireworks off around an announcement like that! haha |
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lucas
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Posts: 8
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Post by lucas on Jan 19, 2016 14:18:19 GMT -6
Hi guys, Lucas from Apogee here. I will try to answer your questions the coming days about our new flagship. For those who don't know me, a very brief introduction. I do analog/hardware design for Apogee. Have been doing this for Apogee since 1998. My first ground up design was the Track 2. I have extensive studio experience; worked at Ocean Way Recording (LA) and Wisseloord Studios. I also have a live-sound background. Been an FOH mixing engineer for 10 years. Yes indeed. The MKII boards use two ADC's per channel. The part used is a 4 channel chip, so one chip serves one stereo pair. Cheers, Lucas welcome Lucas, wow! that's nutz, can you explain the reasoning behind that implementation? how does that affect the specs/sound of the conversion, what is the AD chip brand you used? What is the channel count per chip on the DAC side? seems strange to double up on the AD side, and let the other side ride as is...? The use of double ADC chips per channel of conversion seems an awesome feat to me, why is it mentioned in such passing fashion on your site? i would think you would be lighting fireworks off around an announcement like that! haha It is a result of a multitude of decisions. The ESS DAC chip, just as an 8 channel chip is already better than anything out there. So we left that as is. On the AD side however, we wanted to push the dynamic range over 120dB as well, so that is why I looked into ADC doubling. It is an AKM chip. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 19, 2016 15:50:41 GMT -6
This looks nice but is it no pres ? I find the PR confusing  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 19, 2016 15:57:11 GMT -6
AHEM...well...I called that. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 19, 2016 15:58:46 GMT -6
New: Where the analog inserts on the mic pre card always digitally routeable? So you can patch a handful of compressors and EQs and patch them in via Maestro as needed on whatever mic prior to ADC? That's a slick feature. Yeah - that's really cool. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 19, 2016 16:01:28 GMT -6
This looks nice but is it no pres ? I find the PR confusing Pres for the Symphony have always been an ad-on. |
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Post by joseph on Jan 19, 2016 16:18:23 GMT -6
Hi Lucas,
It looks great, but to be honest, I'm both pleased and a little annoyed by this, as a Symphony mk I owner.
The reason is the fan problem on the 1st version is a design oversight, and there are many reports from users (on GS, for example) with more than one card (either 8x8 or 16x16 plus a separate 8x8, 16x16 or especially preamp card), that the vent modification for the 1st version does not entirely solve the noise problem. But now we see they took this issue into consideration for the redesign, which is good.
But the appeal of the Symphony I or II is that it's modular, yet the potential noise issue with version 1 means that a user doesn't have the confidence that once they they add more cards, they won't then have excessive noise when recording.
My post vent-mod Symphony--that is, delivered already modded from factory--is usually but not always quiet when recording in longer sessions, so I and others have considered instead of getting another card, to get another chassis altogether.
I'm happy that this new version is much quieter. However a fair deal would be to offer the new chassis at a substantial discount to Symphony I owners, since the vent mod did not entirely solve the problem of too much noise. Or some assurance from Apogee that they will provide a chassis that operates quietly, under normal ambient temperatures.
Basically, I'm not happy that in order to expand my channel count, but to ensure a quiet recording environment, I have to pony up an extra 1700 or so for new chassis, regardless. Had I known this, I would have either bought a bigger single card on the Symphony MK 1 to begin with, or looked elsewhere.
That said, the conversion sounds great, and it's cool they're striving for even better performance.
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lucas
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by lucas on Jan 19, 2016 17:57:01 GMT -6
Hi Lucas, It looks great, but to be honest, I'm both pleased and a little annoyed by this, as a Symphony mk I owner. The reason is the fan problem on the 1st version is a design oversight, and there are many reports from users (on GS, for example) with more than one card (either 8x8 or 16x16 plus a separate 8x8, 16x16 or especially preamp card), that the vent modification for the 1st version does not entirely solve the noise problem. But now we see they took this issue into consideration for the redesign, which is good. But the appeal of the Symphony I or II is that it's modular, yet the potential noise issue with version 1 means that a user doesn't have the confidence that once they they add more cards, they won't then have excessive noise when recording. My post vent-mod Symphony--that is, delivered already modded from factory--is usually but not always quiet when recording in longer sessions, so I and others have considered instead of getting another card, to get another chassis altogether. I'm happy that this new version is much quieter. However a fair deal would be to offer the new chassis at a substantial discount to Symphony I owners, since the vent mod did not entirely solve the problem of too much noise. Or some assurance from Apogee that they will provide a chassis that operates quietly, under normal ambient temperatures. Basically, I'm not happy that in order to expand my channel count, but to ensure a quiet recording environment, I have to pony up an extra 1700 or so for new chassis, regardless. Had I known this, I would have either bought a bigger single card on the Symphony MK 1 to begin with, or looked elsewhere. That said, the conversion sounds great, and it's cool they're striving for even better performance. Hi Joseph, We know that has been an issue. The fan was a difficult decision to make. It was either low channel count or lower performance and no fan, or high performance and high channel count with fan... Based on the feedback, we decided to change the airflow of the MKII such that we could use a lower airflow fan that produces less noise. As you can see on the photos there are now vent holes on the front. Which definitely makes a difference, especially when rack mounted. Part of the fan's digital control system has been optimized as well. All in all resulting in 12dB less noise that the previous frame. Would you mind talking to our tech support to make sure everything has been done to keep the noise at the lowest possible in your unit? There may still be a few options. All the best, Lucas |
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Post by joseph on Jan 19, 2016 19:18:59 GMT -6
Thanks for your diplomatic response.
But as I said the problem is I bought the Symphony for its modularity, to expand channel count later on, as advertised. But apparently one cannot do this without a good chance of introducing unacceptable operating noise, even with the vent-mod. So only reliable option is machine room/not tracking in control room or anywhere near Symphony, which is a big inconvenience, since I use it for monitoring.
I would not consider the level of noise in my Symphony as being more than an occasional nuisance at the moment. It only happens when I've been tracking for hours at a time with all my rack gear running. My concern is that if I add another card, and inevitable heat, then the issue will be more than that. Based on other users' reports, I'm pretty convinced this would happen.
If the new chassis solves this problem, why should I bear the cost to get the noiseless modularity I need when the original unit has a serious limitation, resulting in misleading advertising? "Expand as your studio grows [provided you don't mind extra noise]"
Simple as that.
Unless tech support can offer me an actual remedy i.e. a relatively noiseless AND expandable chassis which is what I thought I paid for already, I'll consider Apogee a company that does not stand by its products. Offering the new chassis at discount upon purchase of a new card would be an equitable compromise that I could accept, if not entirely fair, since I'd be paying twice.
Moreover, how can I trust that if I get a Symphony MK II chassis at my own expense, and another problem creeps up, that Apogee will actually fix it in a satisfactory manner?
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 19, 2016 19:30:22 GMT -6
My 8X8 fan only came (don't have it anymore) upon start up never once did it kick in. I knew anything more than that I would have to it isolated. Great sounding rig! Might try the MKII
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 19, 2016 19:49:00 GMT -6
Thanks for your diplomatic response. But as I said the problem is I bought the Symphony for its modularity, to expand channel count later on, as advertised. But apparently one cannot do this without a good chance of introducing unacceptable operating noise, even with the vent-mod. So only reliable option is machine room/not tracking in control room or anywhere near Symphony, which is a big inconvenience, since I use it for monitoring. I would not consider the level of noise in my Symphony as being more than an occasional nuisance at the moment. It only happens when I've been tracking for hours at a time with all my rack gear running. My concern is that if I add another card, and inevitable heat, then the issue will be more than that. Based on other users' reports, I'm pretty convinced this would happen. If the new chassis solves this problem, why should I bear the cost to get the noiseless modularity I need when the original unit has a serious limitation, resulting in misleading advertising? "Expand as your studio grows [provided you don't mind extra noise]" Simple as that. Unless tech support can offer me an actual remedy i.e. a relatively noiseless AND expandable chassis which is what I thought I paid for already, I'll consider Apogee a company that does not stand by its products. Offering the new chassis at discount upon purchase of a new card would be an equitable compromise that I could accept, if not entirely fair, since I'd be paying twice. Moreover, how can I trust that if I get a Symphony MK II chassis at my own expense, and another problem creeps up, that Apogee will actually fix it in a satisfactory manner? I hear your frustration, man...but let's not make ultimatums. Plus, I doubt they would want to make any kind of deal like that in a public setting. I think your best bet would be to call and talk to someone in charge - hopefully they can arrive at a solution for you. BTW - was it billed as noiseless? |
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Post by joseph on Jan 19, 2016 19:50:06 GMT -6
My 8X8 fan only came (don't have it anymore) upon start up never once did it kick in. I knew anything more than that I would have to it isolated. Great sounding rig! Might try the MKII Yeah, I'm talking about what happens when you add another module and therefore more heat. On most days, I have the same experience you did, but now I'm stuck with an unexpandable chassis, which is not what I paid for, assuming the many user reports are accurate. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 19, 2016 19:52:07 GMT -6
Not discouraging discussion, though.
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Post by joseph on Jan 19, 2016 19:57:27 GMT -6
Thanks for your diplomatic response. But as I said the problem is I bought the Symphony for its modularity, to expand channel count later on, as advertised. But apparently one cannot do this without a good chance of introducing unacceptable operating noise, even with the vent-mod. So only reliable option is machine room/not tracking in control room or anywhere near Symphony, which is a big inconvenience, since I use it for monitoring. I would not consider the level of noise in my Symphony as being more than an occasional nuisance at the moment. It only happens when I've been tracking for hours at a time with all my rack gear running. My concern is that if I add another card, and inevitable heat, then the issue will be more than that. Based on other users' reports, I'm pretty convinced this would happen. If the new chassis solves this problem, why should I bear the cost to get the noiseless modularity I need when the original unit has a serious limitation, resulting in misleading advertising? "Expand as your studio grows [provided you don't mind extra noise]" Simple as that. Unless tech support can offer me an actual remedy i.e. a relatively noiseless AND expandable chassis which is what I thought I paid for already, I'll consider Apogee a company that does not stand by its products. Offering the new chassis at discount upon purchase of a new card would be an equitable compromise that I could accept, if not entirely fair, since I'd be paying twice. Moreover, how can I trust that if I get a Symphony MK II chassis at my own expense, and another problem creeps up, that Apogee will actually fix it in a satisfactory manner? I hear your frustration, man...but let's not make ultimatums. Plus, I doubt they would want to make any kind of deal like that in a public setting. I think your best bet would be to call and talk to someone in charge - hopefully they can arrive at a solution for you. BTW - was it billed as noiseless? I think you are wise in your advice, just wanted to put it out there that I'm not entirely pleased with how Apogee treated its MKI customers who are stuck with a potentially faulty but expensive chassis that cannot be expanded reliably. I think it's a reasonable expectation that a modern recording converter system would be relatively but not entirely noiseless under normal ambient temperatures. Most are these days, including the new Symphony after all. They did fix it for a reason! The fan on the Symphony I is pretty intrusive, louder than my computer's, so if it kicked in while I was tracking vocals in control room, the take would be ruined. |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 19, 2016 20:04:21 GMT -6
hey bro, just open it up and disconnect it. the symphony will run like 10F hotter, but it won't kill it. I did that with mine after I got the mic pre card for like a year. I only reconnected the fan when we had a really hot summer here in NYC and I didn't have an AC.
I measured the temperature of the case, and without the fan, the case was around 130F. with the fan, the case ran about 115-120F.
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whaaaa? splain to me please....
