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Post by porkyman on Jan 8, 2016 1:28:06 GMT -6
i decided to take on the zayance sta level. groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=59017.0pcb's on sale for $75 +/-. mouser cart was $100ish. still need all the expensive stuff though. trying to decide how crazy to get with tubes and trafos. sowters are like 3-4 times the price of edcors for ex. the 6386 is 10x the price of 6ba6 splitter option. it adds up pretty quick. anyone tried it yet? opinion on sowter v edcor? thanks. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Jan 8, 2016 1:37:27 GMT -6
I haven't been keeping up with groupdiy lately, but this looks like a cool build. I'll probably have to wait a bit on it since I'm already working on a couple other comps. Curious how people like this, and if it's noisy. I see that Dan is making a case for it, or maybe his existing case can be adapted?
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Post by svart on Jan 8, 2016 7:40:09 GMT -6
I've used edcor on multiple designs, and they are fine for most things.
No matter what anyone says, the 6386 has a unique sound and if you can swing the cost, get one. I hear the reissues from JJ are OK, and buy them from a reputable source (I.E., not ebay..) because people still sell fakes of these..
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Post by winetree on Jan 8, 2016 12:41:44 GMT -6
I'm going to build 2. I've got 2 of the P.S.B.
I'm on the feeler list for 2 of the custom cases by Kid Squid along with 2 of his custom power transformers.
I figure if I get his case and Power transformer It will be an easier and more professional build.
Haven't decided if I'll go all the way with tubes and transformers. I can always get the tubes and transformers any time.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
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sta level
Jan 9, 2016 21:36:23 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Jan 9, 2016 21:36:23 GMT -6
I still have to order my Sowters for my Drip STA, the Edcors are fine , the Sowters are works of Art and priced that way!
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sta level
Jan 9, 2016 21:48:05 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on Jan 9, 2016 21:48:05 GMT -6
How much would this total up to using the good stuff?
I'm less than a newb when it comes to DIY but I have some esperienced friends. I've always wanted a STA Level.
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Post by porkyman on Jan 9, 2016 22:30:43 GMT -6
How much would this total up to using the good stuff? I'm less than a newb when it comes to DIY but I have some esperienced friends. I've always wanted a STA Level. at least a grand. with custom case knobs power trafo etc. could be a lot more... still cheaper than a Retro. |
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sta level
Jan 9, 2016 22:33:25 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on Jan 9, 2016 22:33:25 GMT -6
How much would this total up to using the good stuff? I'm less than a newb when it comes to DIY but I have some esperienced friends. I've always wanted a STA Level. at least a grand. with custom case knobs power trafo etc. could be a lot more... still cheaper than a Retro. Word. Thanks. |
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Post by porkyman on Jan 9, 2016 22:46:44 GMT -6
you talked me in to the 6386. ill probably go one and one with the trafos. ericn svart. would the sowter in make more of an impact , or would out be better. my thought is clean in color out. so sowter out. i have nothing to base that on though just a theory. thanks. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 9, 2016 23:17:58 GMT -6
you talked me in to the 6386. ill probably go one and one with the trafos. ericn svart. would the sowter in make more of an impact , or would out be better. my thought is clean in color out. so sowter out. i have nothing to base that on though just a theory. thanks. I don't know, Drip designs his boards around Sowters, I don't know what or how the guy behind this was thinking. from what I remember he did the board without really thinking about transformers. That said, and don't take this the wrong way, Gates was the low end of broadcast , and wasn't really big on custom parts , so while the Sowters maybe historic recreation, if gates would buy from someone like Edcor not Sowters. Unlike a Gear pimping mod on GC I don't have a problem with OEMs like EDcor they make decent stuff and do some fantastic OEM for some very respected Manufactuerers. So I guess give the Edcors a shot, don't like them you can probably sell them for a minimal loss , less of a loss than if you tried to resell Sowters! |
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Post by sparqee on Jan 10, 2016 0:30:36 GMT -6
I have an assembled (but non operational) Drip Sta Level with Sowters and all the premium parts. If anyone is in the San Francisco, California area and wants to make me an offer I'm willing to let it go (assuming you can come and pick it up).
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sta level
Jan 10, 2016 2:06:20 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on Jan 10, 2016 2:06:20 GMT -6
I have an assembled (but non operational) Drip Sta Level with Sowters and all the premium parts. If anyone is in the San Francisco, California area and wants to make me an offer I'm willing to let it go (assuming you can come and pick it up). What does "assembled but non operational" mean? |
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Post by rocinante on Jan 10, 2016 2:53:37 GMT -6
Ime Input and output transformer are pretty dependent on the circuit. For some the input will have the most impact and others the output.
In Neve or API type circuits both need to have good (Ed Anderson, cinemag, carnhill etc...) transformers in them. My d la2a sounds fine though with edcor. I actually picked up sowter for the output and thought the difference was negligible.
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Post by svart on Jan 10, 2016 10:04:35 GMT -6
I used to say it a lot, but got tired of doing so because fighting hype is nearly impossible..
Unless you have a specialty transformer (I.E., Neve gapped output) or are driving a transformer into saturation, the model/brand/type/material, doesn't have nearly as much bearing on the sound as people seem to think it does.
Transformers used to be standard, because there was no other choice. They weren't chosen back in the day for their attributes like we do today..
That being said, there are a few things that the DIY crowd in general overlooks in cloning things with transformers.
1. Ringing. Being large inductors, transformers will always ring. The degree to which they do is based on their design, the load, and the driving circuit. Generally the original designs took these things into account or had such low bandwidth/high parasitic transformer designs that it wasn't a problem, but since most DIY designs are using reproduction transformers with much higher bandwidths, ringing is likely to be a problem. Even using the Sowter on a direct clone might mean needing a zobel or other loading device on the primary, secondary or both. Changing to an Edcor means a completely different damping circuit will be needed.
2. Proper transformer action. The original designers tried like hell to get RID of all the harmonics/distortion that we actually seem to look for in transformer based products today. Unfortunately, a lot of DIY designs that didn't take into account ringing and other problems result in signals with excessive harmonic content, that they mistake for what they are looking for by using transformers.. Ringing after a large signal change can add considerable distortion and harmonics that are NOT the "transformer" sound. People mistake these distortions as "detail" and "richness" all the time, but they just add a layer of problems, especially when the ringing happens at certain frequencies, which just add mud to the sound.
I suggest that even if you use the intended transformers, to do square wave tests through the unit (no compression) and add/adjust the zobel networks for almost zero overshoot. There are plenty of tutorials out there on this kind of thing.
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Post by sparqee on Jan 10, 2016 10:27:25 GMT -6
I have an assembled (but non operational) Drip Sta Level with Sowters and all the premium parts. If anyone is in the San Francisco, California area and wants to make me an offer I'm willing to let it go (assuming you can come and pick it up). What does "assembled but non operational" mean? A couple of years ago I was reaching the tail end of my passion for diy gear building but Drip contacted me and said they had another run of their Sta Level board. Even though I had never built any tube gear I decided to go for it. Spent a *lot* of money on the parts but like I said; I was kind of done with building gear and I had a hard time sticking with the project. The documentation on the build was pretty slim and I really just tinkered with it. Eventually I got everything together and started checking voltages at the PCB test points but I wasn't getting good numbers. It's been so long that I really don't even remember. I had a three month gig in Japan and when I got back I just had no interest in picking up with trouble shooting this thing that I really didn't understand. I had no luck in finding someone who could finish it for me so it's just been sitting in storage for the last couple of years. The thing is so freakin heavy that I never considered dealing with shipping it off for "repair". <shrug> |
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Post by dandeurloo on Jan 10, 2016 10:37:14 GMT -6
I used Sowter Iron in my point to point build of a Sta Level. I also used really nice tubes. It sounds amazing. Nothing else I have sounds anything like it. It would not be the only compressor I would want but since I have a stash of great comps this one really stands out. It has a very unique tone that makes it very valuable to me.
I would be curious to hear how the Edcor TX sounded next to this. Edcor TX are hit and miss. I know they make some good sounding TX for some projects. Usually things like guitar amps, which the Sta Level is similar to so it could be a good fit. I just didn't want to waste my time testing them on this build. I wanted to go all out and build a killer Sta Level for my own personal use.
If I ever do another one, maybe I would try the Edcor? It would be a lot cheaper. My guess is they could be even more colored?
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Post by EmRR on Jan 10, 2016 13:03:31 GMT -6
I used to say it a lot, but got tired of doing so because fighting hype is nearly impossible.. Unless you have a specialty transformer (I.E., Neve gapped output) or are driving a transformer into saturation, the model/brand/type/material, doesn't have nearly as much bearing on the sound as people seem to think it does. If you put original StaLevel transformers on a clone, it will indeed sound different. If you want a Pultec to sound like a Pultec, you need the original transformers. They have a specific sound contribution. I find it to be the single greatest sonic contributor, much more than tubes themselves. If you spend the money for nickel content transformers, you will get something closer to that which is used on all this lauded vintage gear. If you buy Edcor steel, you get the highest distortion content, though arguably great performance for virtually zero investment. |
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Post by porkyman on Jan 11, 2016 21:48:55 GMT -6
I used Sowter Iron in my point to point build of a Sta Level. I also used really nice tubes. It sounds amazing. Nothing else I have sounds anything like it. It would not be the only compressor I would want but since I have a stash of great comps this one really stands out. It has a very unique tone that makes it very valuable to me. I would be curious to hear how the Edcor TX sounded next to this. Edcor TX are hit and miss. I know they make some good sounding TX for some projects. Usually things like guitar amps, which the Sta Level is similar to so it could be a good fit. I just didn't want to waste my time testing them on this build. I wanted to go all out and build a killer Sta Level for my own personal use. If I ever do another one, maybe I would try the Edcor? It would be a lot cheaper. My guess is they could be even more colored? are you selling the cases? |
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Post by porkyman on Jan 11, 2016 21:53:45 GMT -6
i think im gonna change my game plan. im gonna start cheap and add tubes/sowters down the rode and give each stage adequate time to get a better understanding of the parts im putting in to these builds.
thanks for the advice
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Post by dandeurloo on Jan 11, 2016 23:28:43 GMT -6
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Post by krcwell on Jan 16, 2016 10:59:10 GMT -6
Hey dandeurloo, the zayance project has a slightly different front panel than the drip project shown on your site. The rough pic from Zayance's GDIY build thread:  Any chance you could do a run of cases with the extra mode and recovery time? I've been sitting on one of the Zayance pcb's for a while, I need to get started on it... Seems all the cases for that project would need to be sourced internationally, and I'm not keen on paying that shipping. |
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Post by dandeurloo on Jan 16, 2016 12:46:35 GMT -6
Yeah, I could do them. I need to know that there is enough interest in this specific project to do them. These are more like the retro version it looks like. Do you know how much interest there is in them?
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Post by mdmitch2 on Jan 16, 2016 14:39:24 GMT -6
Yeah, I could do them. I need to know that there is enough interest in this specific project to do them. These are more like the retro version it looks like. Do you know how much interest there is in them? I'm interested... I have to build a hairball 1176 and serpent LA3A, and then this will be the next project.... |
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Post by porkyman on Jan 17, 2016 0:45:16 GMT -6
+1. im sure zayance will add you to the page. he has all the other options.
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Post by krcwell on Jan 17, 2016 10:16:29 GMT -6
+1. im sure zayance will add you to the page. he has all the other options. Just re-read the GDIY thread... Zayance actually already has Dan listed as a supplier of cases and panels for the project. I didn't notice either. you don't want Zayance to look like a liar, do ya Dan?  But in all seriousness, how many do you need to justify a run of cases? Looks like 3 here so far, and I can throw up a feeler over at GDIY if you want. |
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But in all seriousness, how many do you need to justify a run of cases? Looks like 3 here so far, and I can throw up a feeler over at GDIY if you want.