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Post by EmRR on Dec 3, 2015 19:53:39 GMT -6
See what you think of the sound of these, if you can access Spotify. This is stuff from about an 18 year time period.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 3, 2015 20:40:19 GMT -6
See what you think of the sound of these, if you can access Spotify. This is stuff from about an 18 year time period.
don't have spotify, and i never will, is this stuff recorded on a mackie? |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 3, 2015 20:42:54 GMT -6
It all had something to do with a Mackie. Some of it even 16 bit blackface ADAT's.
Given there's a lot of music that can't ever be heard without a streaming service, I doubt it's realistic to say 'never will' without ceasing to hear much new or off the beaten path. Seems unsustainable.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 3, 2015 21:55:53 GMT -6
It all had something to do with a Mackie. Some of it even 16 bit blackface ADAT's. Given there's a lot of music that can't ever be heard without a streaming service, I doubt it's realistic to say 'never will' without ceasing to hear much new or off the beaten path. Seems unsustainable. i'm using apple streaming, spotify is the worst offender when it comes to paying artists... right? Anyway, stuff sounds good, is it urs? whats with the coy "something to do with a mackie" line? spit it or quit it! haha, I STILL have a "hard" blackface adat as well, they sure have that sound don't they.... |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 3, 2015 22:23:12 GMT -6
Yeah, it's all my stuff. Oldest is tracked through the Mackie to the blackface in a basement with 6'5" ceilings, more recent the Mackie is a glorified summing mixer. Again, it spans 18 years, so the 'something' varies across time. Point is, the Mackie is the least of my problems.
Is Spotify the worst offender? It seems like it's the record labels. I pay for it, I play records I also own hardcopy, so someone's getting paid at least twice by me. At any rate the stuff I've done I can find on Spotify is the only stuff I can legally play you, in a way that stands some chance of paying a royalty. If it's on Apple streaming, try it there (maybe you did). There's plenty I've done that sounds as good or better, but I'd have to upload it somewhere (file sharing) or mail you a CD-R.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 3, 2015 23:16:13 GMT -6
Yeah, it's all my stuff. Oldest is tracked through the Mackie to the blackface in a basement with 6'5" ceilings, more recent the Mackie is a glorified summing mixer. Again, it spans 18 years, so the 'something' varies across time. Point is, the Mackie is the least of my problems. Is Spotify the worst offender? It seems like it's the record labels. I pay for it, I play records I also own hardcopy, so someone's getting paid at least twice by me. At any rate the stuff I've done I can find on Spotify is the only stuff I can legally play you, in a way that stands some chance of paying a royalty. If it's on Apple streaming, try it there. There's plenty I've done that sounds as good or better, but I'd have to upload it somewhere (file sharing) or mail you a CD-R. Small spaces are a bitch, especially the low ceilings, the room is the most important piece of gear anyone can have imv, but even without seeing your rig, I'd suggest the Mackie ISN'T "the least of your problems"? Honestly, if you're pulling that good of a sound out of one of those, you must have great outboard and skills, if you used a console like my JW modded delta, you'd absolutely lose your mind! it will unequivocally, and objectively eat a mackie as a bad tasting snack, it's a steak dinner vs a happy meal, it's super hifi, and will put on full display all the colors your skill and outboard have to offer in technicolor haha, seriously, if you live anywhere near san diego, come by and give what i've got up and running so far a whirl, maybe i can learn something from you? you're more than welcome, these consoles can be had for a song before the JW mods, and if i remember correctly you've got mad soldering skills? so you might not need to spend too much $ beyond sweat equitizing 8) |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 3, 2015 23:44:47 GMT -6
I'd love to drop by, but I'm east coast. I've a 1968 Altec 9200A (same thing the former Sound City has now) waiting on me to decipher and upgrade/restore, sitting in the corner for 8 years now. People keep offering to buy it, maybe it'll get away before I get to use it. Who knows if it sounds better or worse. A Cheech and Chong record was recorded on it....
The earliest stuff there, I had no outboard to speak of. Now it's all outboard. I got more than I can use, for sure. Early on I worked on an ex-BBC Neve full of 33114 and 33115's, my engineering was in the early part of the learning curve, and the stuff sounds it. I still got shit for a room, a run-down rental I wouldn't dream of pouring money into.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 3, 2015 23:54:54 GMT -6
I'd love to drop by, but I'm east coast. I've a 1968 Altec 9200A (same thing the former Sound City has now) waiting on me to decipher and upgrade/restore, sitting in the corner for 8 years now. People keep offering to buy it, maybe it'll get away before I get to use it. Who knows if it sounds better or worse. A Cheech and Chong record was recorded on it.... The earliest stuff there, I had no outboard to speak of. Now it's all outboard. I got more than I can use, for sure. Early on I worked on an ex-BBC Neve full of 33114 and 33115's, my engineering was in the early part of the learning curve, and the stuff sounds it. I still got shit for a room, a run-down rental I wouldn't dream of pouring money into. speechless, thats just awesome, man you gotta get that altec going!! i contacted Fairfax(i think thats what they call soundcity now?) about tracking some drums there recently, i didn't even get a reply after a couple emails... mehhh. |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 3, 2015 23:59:57 GMT -6
That's it, I think it's a private project specific room now, not really for hire.
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Post by rocinante on Dec 4, 2015 0:36:01 GMT -6
I actually got into a good deal of trouble playing music I engineered and produced and can completely understand anyone's reluctance. I can't even mention several documentaries I did the entire soundtrack to (if you've ever done them and know how much work was involved then you know how much that hurt) All just because I had streamable/downloadable tracks on my website.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 4, 2015 9:52:37 GMT -6
Tony I know you're being a bit rhetorical, but I personally find the Mackie VLZ4 series to sound quite good. I also agree with MrHolmes. Some of my favorite records. Anyway I also run a line level stereo pad and run the Mackies into a pair of CAPI 312 modified preamps for even more tone. It sounds surprisingly good.
EDIT: I'm sure your JW modified Soundcraft would probably run circles as they say.
There is this rabbit hole people go down about how much something costs. I think once you're down far enough it's probably hard to see your way back out. Certainly the high and lower end mentality are almost worlds apart in real life practice. But there's great music coming out of many varied places and I think that's important to remember.
By they way if anyone is looking for a cheap but high quality analog summing option, there's a chap on Group DIY selling very affordable modular summing PCBs that you can make your own Folcrom style summing mixer for pennies to the dollar vs. the price of that unit. I've got one here, and it's a cool sound. There's also a point-to-point build plan of this type of passive mixer on DIY Recording Equipment. You can check my blog if you want to see my build and my transformer color switching scheme.
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Post by rocinante on Dec 4, 2015 11:10:50 GMT -6
Ehhh.... i have to kind of disagree. You ever work on a Neve? Or a nice Trident? I am sure you have heard an sm57 through a Neve channel. Imagine a whole drum kit. Its alive. Its not even apples and oranges. Its a f'ing banana tree versus an over ripe kiwi.
Im not a total gear snob. I mixed my bands first album on a vlz. But years later working on higher end consoles took me mere hours to get the results I spent countless days on. For a brief period I used a mackie for monitoring when I decided to go ITB for a few years. It wasnt horrible but it wasnt great either.
Now for live work they are awesome.
I have a mackie thats been to burning man 3 times and the damn thing is still kicking in our practice space. Now thats a mackie plug if there ever was one;
Mackie: Survives burning man.
Nowadays I'm doing a good deal of work on a semi modded Ghost. Its no Neve but its definitely far easier to work on then mackies. I have so many options of what I want routed where its sometimes too much. I can be completely in the consoles path or run everything through a 1290 front end via my patchbays. Its really what im in the mood for. For me its more about options and ease of use.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 4, 2015 11:28:06 GMT -6
Well I don't disagree either. I'm sure a Neve or API console is a whole different world, and more of my favorite albums were recorded on those than Mackies. And yes, they "sound" better.
I really like what you said about it happening quicker. I think that's a real advantage of truly professional gear and work environments.
It just basically comes down to finance and professional or non-professional involvement I guess, nobody is really flipping any coins to make these decisions, they are very practical.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 4, 2015 12:16:09 GMT -6
ask me if i'd swap my delta for a neve(if value in $ meant nothing)? the answer is NO, i can insert neve, api, ssl, or any other color i want in line, and this thing gives it back in spades, the eq's are shockingly good, it's like a very natural looking ultra HD tv or some shit, of course like monkey said, i always like being a bit rhetorical to keep it fun, but this ain't a joke.... really..., totally serial, half man, half bear, half pig haha
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Post by EmRR on Dec 4, 2015 12:42:07 GMT -6
I once carried a burning Mackie out of a coliseum and left it smoldering on the sidewalk outside, never saw it again.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 4, 2015 12:45:18 GMT -6
Hey EmRR, I just took that Avett Brothers album that you did for a spin. Nice stuff man. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 4, 2015 12:56:32 GMT -6
I once carried a burning Mackie out of a coliseum and left it smoldering on the sidewalk outside, never saw it again. awesome!! |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 4, 2015 12:57:09 GMT -6
Thanks! It's painful and error-ridden to my ears in hindsight, but that shouldn't spoil it for anyone else. The song I linked is a a great example of what we face: that was soundcheck on day 1, I was still setting levels and that was the take. The setup and every technical setting was still guesswork based on previous experience. There are earlier ones I worked on also, when they were still punk rock screamers breaking acoustic and banjo strings every few minutes, those are less an experience in studio nuance and more an experience of capturing a 1 take hand grenade. For shits and giggles, this is what they were doing with me in 2000. Just got a rerelease, someone 'remastered' it from an original CD rather than getting in touch about original hi-res masters. Oh well. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 4, 2015 13:25:23 GMT -6
Thanks! It's painful and error-ridden to my ears in hindsight, but that shouldn't spoil it for anyone else. The song I linked is a a great example of what we face: that was soundcheck on day 1, I was still setting levels and that was the take. The setup and every technical setting was still guesswork based on previous experience. There are earlier ones I worked on also, when they were still punk rock screamers breaking acoustic and banjo strings every few minutes, those are less an experience in studio nuance and more an experience of capturing a 1 take hand grenade. For shits and giggles, this is what they were doing with me in 2000. Just got a rerelease, someone 'remastered' it from an original CD rather than getting in touch about original hi-res masters. Oh well.
Even if it's error ridden, it's still a nice album. This Nemo1934 is insane. Haha. From this to "I And Love And You". I'm dying. Really cool. Thanks for sharing. |
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 4, 2015 15:00:24 GMT -6
I once carried a burning Mackie out of a coliseum and left it smoldering on the sidewalk outside, never saw it again. I try to imagine that. |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 4, 2015 15:06:48 GMT -6
I'd like to see Mackie 8 bus EQ's spontaneously combust and hardwire bypass themselves without damaging anything else.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2015 15:08:36 GMT -6
The Air lp Moon Safari was recorded at Studio Gang Paris (vintage API), Abbey Road and mixed at Studio Plus XXX (Neve VR), and mastered at the Exchange (EAR 660, 822q), no wonder it sounds really good.. They probably used their mackie at home.. Credits are here : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Safari |
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 4, 2015 16:13:08 GMT -6
I'd like to see Mackie 8 bus EQ's spontaneously combust and hardwire bypass themselves without damaging anything else. LOL |
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Post by rocinante on Dec 4, 2015 23:22:13 GMT -6
Well I don't disagree either. I'm sure a Neve or API console is a whole different world, and more of my favorite albums were recorded on those than Mackies. And yes, they "sound" better. I really like what you said about it happening quicker. I think that's a real advantage of truly professional gear and work environments. It just basically comes down to finance and professional or non-professional involvement I guess, nobody is really flipping any coins to make these decisions, they are very practical. Yeah ill take whichever course makes my job easiest as I'm no master of the craft. Not even close. Truth be told I need all the help that I can get and sometimes im fortunate enough to have that be a nice console. I'm no veteren. Hardly pro (although it does help with the bills). Ive mixed albums mostly itb with hardware inserts that sounded just as good imo to the ones I did on a nice console. Sometimes everything seems to flow together well, I'm able to feel what I need to do, and its just great. At those times it doesnt matter if im on a mackie or an ssl. Im on. Other times I just suck. I'm polishing turds that I helped create. Im not hearing correctly. Im boosting when i should be cutting, etc... And it doesnt matter if im on a 1608 or coming out an mbox. Its hours of guck. Ive worked with enough 20 year plus pros that I know how much more they know. That they can make a great mix with little effort on the most basic of tools. And while they are full time AE's I am not. It takes me longer. But since im not gonna be a rock folk legend I might as well help someone else who might. Oh and emrr; you have a very respectful discography under your belt. Some very cool tracks in there. Burning Mackie or not my hat goes off to you sir. |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 5, 2015 8:04:08 GMT -6
Thanks. Yeah, use what you can and get it done. At a certain point GAS is overrated.
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