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Post by M57 on Nov 22, 2015 12:20:28 GMT -6
Just a small exhibition of how little I know of these things, but my understanding is that parallel compression means mixing a compressed signal in with the original, so the thought crossed my mind, does anyone here use or has anyone here ever tried using two different compressors in parallel? ..like a FET with an Opto? Why or why wouldn't it work? I know most people compress in series to glue things, but just wondering..
For that matter, while using parallel compression, and while the signal is split, obviously there is opportunity to process the two parts in many ways independently, and not with just compression. Bad idea? For instance, would EQing just the original track somehow smear things?
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 22, 2015 14:08:36 GMT -6
EQ'ing the parallel send is fine. Actually the only time I will parallel compress, I will probably EQ it too. For instance make the compressed version a little darker and then the more dynamic version brighter, gives the sensation of it being dynamic while keeping it quite full.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 22, 2015 14:18:53 GMT -6
Just a small exhibition of how little I know of these things, but my understanding is that parallel compression means mixing a compressed signal in with the original, so the thought crossed my mind, does anyone here use or has anyone here ever tried using two different compressors in parallel? ..like a FET with an Opto? Why or why wouldn't it work? I know most people compress in series to glue things, but just wondering.. For that matter, while using parallel compression, and while the signal is split, obviously there is opportunity to process the two parts in many ways independently, and not with just compression. Bad idea? For instance, would EQing just the original track somehow smear things? Do you mean having a mono source that gets processed differently twice and blended? I've read about one of the big names doing that. He sends his lead vocal through a handful of different chains and uses/blends whatever way he wants. Can't remember who though, terrible with names. If you're talking about micing your piano with the 76 on the right hand and an opto on the left or something, I could see that being wonky. |
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Post by M57 on Nov 22, 2015 14:36:15 GMT -6
Do you mean having a mono source that gets processed differently twice and blended? I've read about one of the big names doing that. He sends his lead vocal through a handful of different chains and uses/blends whatever way he wants. Can't remember who though, terrible with names. If you're talking about micing your piano with the 76 on the right hand and an opto on the left or something, I could see that being wonky. The former.. |
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Post by acegunn on Nov 22, 2015 14:42:26 GMT -6
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 22, 2015 14:48:34 GMT -6
Figure 3 in the first link is what I was talking about. You nailed it. Thanks. |
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 22, 2015 19:41:10 GMT -6
I used p-compression sometimes and I think it causes phase issues.
Using two compressors in series is fun, sometimes I put the 1176 in my VLA2 on lead vocal, sounds sweet.
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Post by noah shain on Nov 22, 2015 21:32:54 GMT -6
I do parallel compression on drums on every single mix for years now. Sometimes more than one bus.
That is more so I can send different groups of mics to be compressed differently, more than its about different compressor types, though they often are different types.
For instance, 1 bus may get all the drum mics but in different ratios than the un-comped bus. Like overheads, hat, kick pulled back so they don't get out of control. Slower attack and release. Mostly to add attack and make things feel more urgent.
The 2nd bus might just get close mic snare and toms and be fast attack/fast release to level transients and accentuate the bloom or extend the note of things. A real envelope shaper.
1 or both might be eq'd to taste.
Just 1 example and not how it always goes but there's always some kind of parallel happening for me.
Vocals often a similar approach.
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Post by rocinante on Nov 22, 2015 21:36:00 GMT -6
Oh yeah I use a series of compressors often enough for vocals. 1176 into La2a can be just outstanding. A compressor in parrallel with a completely different compressor seems like it would probably cause phase issues (on top of other things) but I'm sure someone has tried it as an effect and considered it a success. I guess it would depend on the comp though and your attack settings. Worthy of experimentation imo. Mid-side parrallel vca tube split compression?
Neat.
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 23, 2015 5:28:05 GMT -6
Why do people think 2 paralleled compressors would cause phase issues? They're gain changing devices. Unless we're talking about a transformer loaded vs non-transformer loaded device, or an old style broadcast limiter with look ahead, there should be no such issue.
I just think a lot of parallel compression, especially on drums, just adds density I don't need. I'd rather strap limiters on the close mics.
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 23, 2015 8:52:24 GMT -6
Is that "Brauerizing"? people have been doing it for years without knowing it was "Brauerizing", including a self secluded geek like me, ITB/OTB i assign individual tracks to stereo sub mixes and that's the only place i'll use stereo stem/sub bus compression, i use nothing on the stereo 2 bus at all. I usually group drums and bass together, guitars, back vox, keys, and whatever else falls into a similar sonic and rhythmic category will get their own stereo sub pair. For me, right or wrong terminology... i usually call them stereo stems. Also OTB on a console, after assigned buses run out, using post fader Direct outs to external summing units, then returning to a pair of channels on your console leading to the 2 buss is gold for maintaining awesome headroom, precise imaging and beef, kinda gives you what the focusrite console was doing with only 8 channels per bus.
as far as parallel compression... I'm not a big fan of parallel compression, I hear too much phase clouding for my taste(anytime you change the ADSR... aka the sounds "envelope", it introduces phase shifts when paired with the original, otherwise it would just be simply louder, and that certainly isn't the case with parallel compression), IME that smear can actually rob a mix of definition and power, i will once in awhile duplicate a track and linear band pass some desirable freq's, squash and bring them up underneath to thicken some good stuff, but alas not very often....
of course JMO, YMMV
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Post by Ward on Nov 23, 2015 8:54:29 GMT -6
I'm a serial offender.... as in compressors in series. LA2a or CL1b followed by an 1176. But I think i might try a multi and give this idea a serious shot.
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Post by jsteiger on Nov 23, 2015 10:42:19 GMT -6
All the pro's have been doing it for ages. In fact, I'm sure Bob Olhsson has some stories about parallel compression in the motown era. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 23, 2015 12:35:06 GMT -6
All the pro's have been doing it for ages. In fact, I'm sure Bob Olhsson has some stories about parallel compression in the motown era. There is no doubt, it's actually called New York compression, dubbed in the 70's I think, btw Jeff, I've been noodling with the 526, sonically ur compressor is a serious badass! I've been too busy to get up some samples, but I will..., it's sound is no joke! |
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Post by jsteiger on Nov 23, 2015 12:38:57 GMT -6
All the pro's have been doing it for ages. In fact, I'm sure Bob Olhsson has some stories about parallel compression in the motown era. There is no doubt, it's actually called New York compression, dubbed in the 70's I think, btw Jeff, I've been noodling with the 526, sonically ur compressor is a serious badass! I've been too busy to get up some samples, but I will..., it's sound is no joke! Thanks Tony. BTW, I have derived a small mod to limit the range of the input pot to appx 40dB so it can't get turned "off". Makes it a little less touchy. The same can be done to the output pot. Bump up the FC526 thread if you want to discuss. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 23, 2015 15:07:01 GMT -6
There is no doubt, it's actually called New York compression, dubbed in the 70's I think, btw Jeff, I've been noodling with the 526, sonically ur compressor is a serious badass! I've been too busy to get up some samples, but I will..., it's sound is no joke! Thanks Tony. BTW, I have derived a small mod to limit the range of the input pot to appx 40dB so it can't get turned "off". Makes it a little less touchy. The same can be done to the output pot. Bump up the FC526 thread if you want to discuss. this i heard about from Dan, i'm very excited about it as i'm a light touch fella.... well..... at least with compression haha I will bump the 526 thread to hear more details... |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 23, 2015 15:12:50 GMT -6
Tony Bongiovi learned about it at Motown in Detroit and took it to Media Sound in New York. Because Berry Gordy hated the sound of limiters, we stole the idea from the classical methods of English Decca and DGG. I understand it was also built into the BBC's compressors.
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 23, 2015 15:18:53 GMT -6
jsteiger , I cant find the original 526 thread? i found other big threads, but i figured it'd be good to keep the workings info on the main thread.... where ever it is? Johnkenn
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 23, 2015 15:29:11 GMT -6
I'm not really sure which thread was the original. I think it was entitled "FET" or something...Should we start another thread? Fine with me. jsteiger tonycamphd |
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Post by rocinante on Nov 24, 2015 1:23:06 GMT -6
Looking over some older mixes, it seems I've done "New York" aka (by me right now) 'split seperate parrallel compression' before but never gave it any thought. It was more an accident then something I intended on doing I'm sure. And rarely had I kept the track that way in the end it appears. It looks like I did it while setting up the mix, but in 4 out of the 5 songs that I found I eventually settled on an eq on the effected track.
I'm not all that surprised that it had been done before and named but its interesting nonetheless.
So thanks for the short history lesson and enlightening us with your experience fellas. Keep it coming, I always have room to learn more.
Cheers
Dylan
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