|
Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 18, 2015 10:09:34 GMT -6
I have a boatload of Waves plugins I never use, so I don't like to get something I have little experience with, has anyone used this, and is it worth having a dedicated plugin to do parallel compression? It's only $19 at JRR. www.jrrshop.com/final-mix-parallel-drums
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 18, 2015 10:10:30 GMT -6
I know it's inexpensive, but If I don't use it, I'd rather buy a nice lunch than throw money away.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 18, 2015 10:22:47 GMT -6
I wouldn't buy it. If you want to do parallel compression and your compressor plug doesn't have a blend, double the track that your compressing, compress one track and not the other, blend to taste.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 18, 2015 10:25:07 GMT -6
Cool, thanks jcoutou.
I'm curious, say you have 8 drum tracks, (I usually have only two), would it work to put a compressor on a bus and blend, getting all the tracks at the same time, or is it better individually?
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 18, 2015 10:52:04 GMT -6
I always set up and aux track with the output of my drum tracks going to the input of my Drum Aux (buss). You could duplicate that aux track and have one with compression, one without and use the faders to blend.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 18, 2015 10:54:15 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by noah shain on Nov 18, 2015 11:28:23 GMT -6
Cool, thanks jcoutou. I'm curious, say you have 8 drum tracks, (I usually have only two), would it work to put a compressor on a bus and blend, getting all the tracks at the same time, or is it better individually? You can also use an aux, insert a comp and use sends from individual drum tracks so your overheads and hats and stuff don't go to the parallel bus. The balance of drums in the parallel bus is often different than the basic drum balance. Insert an eq also and experiment with eq on the parallel bus.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 18, 2015 12:13:46 GMT -6
very helpful info guys, thanks. I didn't even think about not sending overheads and hats, thanks Noah.
|
|
|
Post by Randge on Nov 18, 2015 12:24:08 GMT -6
If I were you, Martin, I would consider something like the Elysia X-pressor. I recently ran some of Cowboy's tracks through it and he was quite impressed. It's pretty affordable and is very versatile. Something to think about for sure.
|
|
|
Post by noah shain on Nov 18, 2015 12:27:08 GMT -6
very helpful info guys, thanks. I didn't even think about not sending overheads and hats, thanks Noah. The cymbals and hats can get pretty nasty! Depending on how hard you smash the parallel bus you may have to do some gating as well. I'm a bit of a squasher myself. A lot of the time my parallel bus has almost no transient. Distressor style. It's adding ambience and length and "bloom" to the drums. Sometimes 2 parallel busses are needed 1 for punch and 1 for BLOOM!!
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 18, 2015 12:47:59 GMT -6
I use Toontracks Superior Drummer. It has a sub mixer, the overheads and room mics are easily tweaked. I always took the shortcut, and just used the stereo drums option instead of using individual tracks. Next project, I'll try some new things, and use the individual tracks and a bus or two.
I often wish I could do better on snare levels. When I get into automating the snare velocity, it usually doesn't quite get it.
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Nov 18, 2015 12:50:29 GMT -6
Or real drums. Never heard any particular value for a real multimic'd kits. Shit--you're trying your best to push the bleedy ambeint sustainy bits DOWN....not up....but, give me a sampled kit and it requires parallel crunching almost always because it, by definition isn't a sampled kit--it's a sample set of kit pieces someone then plays together and wonders why it doesn't sound like a kit. Since they all tend to include ambient mics now--apply parallel compression and it gels it into sounding more like a kit being played together. I'm just saying. Another way to skin the cat is not skin the cat. Love it and feed it. But, if you have to remove this particular feline's largest organ--because you ARE using sampled kits--use the aux method, so you can NOT send the kick to it at the same level you're sending other kit pieces. But make the sends pre fader so you can manipulate the actual drums' EQ/dynamics etc and not have it reflect in the parallel buss. Not sure how that's going to factor into that LogicX drummer's breakout....but, ideally--you've going to have that stuff rendered to audio before you're doing this kind of mix minutia, right? Yes.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 18, 2015 13:21:11 GMT -6
Thanks Henge, I have a long list ahead of it, but will put the X-pressor on it :-)
Thanks Popmann, appreciate the pre-fader tip.
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Nov 18, 2015 21:40:40 GMT -6
I run each drum through its own track treating superior drummer like a recorded kit. I then double everything sending one to one bus via aux and leaving the other uneffected (and sometimes muted). While SD sounds great coming from the plug I always feel the need to tweak it a bit more especially in instances like fast heavy choruses where I need the snap of the snare to really come out. It also organizes it in front of me better and is easier (for me) to manage coming through the console. I also like having an effected bus and a 'raw' bus to play around with parrallel compression with.
Depending on the situation I'll do this through my console instead of the daw.
The elysia is on my 2016 wish list.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 18, 2015 22:22:56 GMT -6
Thanks rocinante, by "console" do you mean Toontracks' mixer or the UAD Apollo's console? Where I've had trouble is the opposite, I'd like the snare to relax a little on a verse instead of hitting hard, and the velocity tool helps, but it's still not quite right.
I've never learned to use Superior Drummers editing features, I use Logic's midi automation, do you think I;d get better results using SD's editing features?
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Nov 19, 2015 11:48:55 GMT -6
Don't use midi automation. You need to use the MIDI note velocity or you're making the snare drum hit hard just quieter in volume--so, literally that will never "lay back" and will sound weird.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 19, 2015 21:16:35 GMT -6
Thanks Popmann, that has been my issue, the snare is just lower, but still hard hit. I do go into Logic's template ("Piano Roll) and adjust note velocity there, but it still seems to be the same, just lower.
I'll try harder next production, maybe lowering velocity even more will do it. I have had some success, but not close enough to feel like when a drummer lays back on a verse just the right way. I know I'll work with a real drummer again, but would like the drums on my demos to improve as much as I can get them to.
I've been lazy about learning Superior Drummers options for tone and dynamics. Guess I really don't want to be a drum programmer, but I do need to learn a bit more now.
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Nov 19, 2015 23:15:40 GMT -6
Martin I mean console as in my Soundcraft Ghost but I also mix Superior Drummer within the DAW and the results are pretty similar (we are dealing with a sample software). Depending on the situation i will run each part of the kit i.e.; the snare, the kick, through its own channel and sum them via the Ghost busses (i also work on a Trident). Usually it's if I already have been working with other material this way. I also rarely ever use any of their full kit 'grooves' other than a 'fill' or ' bridge'. I'll use just the kick and hi hat and either fill in the other parts of the kit myself or I have one of my drummer friends do it (and watch them smugly put me to shame with just their fingertips). Obviously given the option a good drummer with a decent kit is vastly superior to superior drummer but thats not always available or what the client wants. Honestly I have yet to find a collection that actually has the beat I have in my head. Fortunately I know some incredible drummers that can.
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Nov 19, 2015 23:37:10 GMT -6
Okay I realized that last statement of not using any of the SD grooves was not true. I guess I spend a decent anount of time making the beats which makes it feel like I never use the grooves but in the last 5 minutes I could think of 10 examples where I have. As a matter of fact just two days ago I used a couple of grooves for an 'inspirational' video we had peoduced and edited for a client as well as in the chorus of one of my own songs. So I guess my pants are pretty much on fire.
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Nov 20, 2015 5:59:14 GMT -6
Thanks Popmann, that has been my issue, the snare is just lower, but still hard hit. I do go into Logic's template ("Piano Roll) and adjust note velocity there, but it still seems to be the same, just lower. I'll try harder next production, maybe lowering velocity even more will do it. I have had some success, but not close enough to feel like when a drummer lays back on a verse just the right way. I know I'll work with a real drummer again, but would like the drums on my demos to improve as much as I can get them to. I've been lazy about learning Superior Drummers options for tone and dynamics. Guess I really don't want to be a drum programmer, but I do need to learn a bit more now. Logic's drums (and many of the their instruments) use a number of different samples that are dependent on midi velocity. So one trick you can try would be to lower (or raise) the midi velocity until you hear the sample change, then adjust/compensate the channel volume for that particular hit. The success of this approach varies depending on how many samples they use over a range, so you could try raising or lowering the entire drawn fader automation to a sweet spot that straddles the two samples. Sometimes the variance between samples is too noticeable (especially with some of logic's winds and horns), but most often drums can be massaged.
|
|