|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Nov 13, 2015 9:30:55 GMT -6
I just bought a Miktek CV3...it's a pretty dang nice-sounding mic out of the box - probably a little on the bright side for my tastes. I recorded a super dynamic, piercing female singer yesterday - one that could break a glass from 10 meters kinda singer...and it was pretty terrible on her. I guess the point of this post was this - the biggest difference in a quality capsule and "not-so-great" one (IMHO) is the ability of the capsule to remain consistent across the frequency spectrum no matter what dynamic its being fed. I.e., bad ones tighten up and pinch when hit hard. At least that's the biggest difference I notice between really good/vintage mics or Shannon's caps and cheaper ones. Just seems to be 90-95% the capsule. Just bloviating.
|
|
|
|
Post by mulmany on Nov 13, 2015 10:15:29 GMT -6
Did you feel like you have been through all this before? Going backwards must be really disappointing.
Sorry can't resist a jab.
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Nov 13, 2015 11:55:30 GMT -6
I've long complained that frequency plots for mics are functionally useless, because they are simply snapshots at a single SPL levels....AND that don't say anything about transient handling--yet our ears hear the leading edge of many sounds as where "harsh" comes from. So, functionally--the graphs are useless. It's like posting a mic's SNR. It's a spec that is utterly meaningless--only unlike SNR, people put some stock into frequency plots. She sounded fine on an Sm7, right?  |
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on Nov 13, 2015 12:32:02 GMT -6
Should have bought the 3U Audio GZ67fet...no sharp edges, no elbows or knees sticking out...big, rich and smoove!...and much less expensive...
BTW, the factory that manufactures the MikTek capsules is more than capable of providing a voicing void of the issues you address in your post...I would have to place blame on the implementation or the sonic profile they were aiming for...it's not a case of cheap capsule, IMHO...
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Nov 13, 2015 14:13:46 GMT -6
Well, I disagree. It's not just voicing. It's the way the cap handles transients. I don't believe changing the voicing on this capsule would change how it "pinches". Maybe your 3U guy has found the secret sauce.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Nov 13, 2015 14:14:49 GMT -6
And id like to try one. Maybe I will at that price.
|
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on Nov 13, 2015 14:28:20 GMT -6
Well, I disagree. It's not just voicing. It's the way the cap handles transients. I don't believe changing the voicing on this capsule would change how it "pinches". Maybe your 3U guy has found the secret sauce. ...I'm not sure what you mean by "changing the voicing on this capsule", but what I am saying is that I suspect that same capsule employed by a different/modified circuit and tranny would more than likely perform more smoothly...certainly Shannon could re-skin it to sound stellar... |
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Nov 13, 2015 19:47:02 GMT -6
On a singer like that you might want to break out the SM7B. But that's cool if you can find a condenser that still works. I must agree that certain capsules perform much better than others. I suppose it's good to test a mic in as many ranges and decibels as you can when you first get it to see where it lies in the spectrum, to know when to use it and when to put it back in the case, or on ebay.
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 13, 2015 19:58:36 GMT -6
I hate to say it, get ready to roll eyes,...but the $600 list Heritage Series Genesis MXL mic sounded every bit as good as many of the 2-3k U47ish mics I've heard. I was at AES, so there's only so much you an tell in that environment, but I tell you, I hit that thing hard as hell, and it took a hit better than my Thiersch M7 capsule. I agree there's a shrillness to many cheap capsules when hit hard, but I'd look at that MXL if you get a chance and maybe at the 3U kidvybes mentioned for a great sounding bargain. Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Nov 13, 2015 21:45:20 GMT -6
An LDC is all capsule. Circuits can be made both inexpensively and MORE appropo, CONSISTENT unit to unit. There can be no greater proof that that....every Mackie channel made in China sounds exactly the same....which is an even more complicated circuit than a head amp. And yet grab 10 of the same chinese LDCs....and you'll be lucky to find two that will pair. And you should play the lottery if you find two that are a pair AND sound good.
Actually....if you want to leave off qualitY and simple talk qualiTIES....Korby KAT system. Hot swap mic heads--basket and capsule....all else is the same....literally night and day different sound. This isn't some mystery of the universe. I mean--what makes a specific capsule good or bad MIGHT be a mystery of the universe....but, where the magic happens isn't debatable, IME/O.
All capsule and basket/grille. Always was. The rest is icing. Icing is good....but, it's ain't cake.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,940 
|
Post by ericn on Nov 13, 2015 22:41:09 GMT -6
An LDC is all capsule. Circuits can be made both inexpensively and MORE appropo, CONSISTENT unit to unit. There can be no greater proof that that....every Mackie channel made in China sounds exactly the same....which is an even more complicated circuit than a head amp. And yet grab 10 of the same chinese LDCs....and you'll be lucky to find two that will pair. And you should play the lottery if you find two that are a pair AND sound good. Actually....if you want to leave off qualitY and simple talk qualiTIES....Korby KAT system. Hot swap mic heads--basket and capsule....all else is the same....literally night and day different sound. This isn't some mystery of the universe. I mean--what makes a specific capsule good or bad MIGHT be a mystery of the universe....but, where the magic happens isn't debatable, IME/O. All capsule and basket/grille. Always was. The rest is icing. Icing is good....but, it's ain't cake. Guess who was behind those capsules? Our own Shannon! I kept my Lawson Fet because at some point I'm going to have Shannon build me a 67 cap like in the Kat! |
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Nov 13, 2015 22:46:14 GMT -6
show me a cheap mic with a great capsule in it, a cheap circuit, a cheap tube, a cheap tranny, a weak/just enough to get by PSU(every chinese mic i've ever touched), and i'll show you a strident lurchy cheap sounding mic that actually DOES sound better than the same cheap mic with the stock capsule, but only marginally better. As always, the circuit design and all the parts matter huge, the weird part is the cost diff between top of the line parts and junk ain't that much, but bean counters be counting dem beans....
Also, hearing a mic at AES for a couple minutes doesn't constitute a worthy evaluation IME, I've been there done that. I can take that even further as I've built and owned many mics, mood dependent...? sometimes they will initially strike me as "wow!" and then the wow factor goes away with some further use, sometimes they initially hit me as "mehhh", then with more testing i discover it's better than i initially thought, it takes time in your own environment to suss out DECENT gear, on the other hand i can usually hear a worthless piece of it in a sec or two in any environment 8)
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,940
|
Post by ericn on Nov 13, 2015 23:10:14 GMT -6
show me a cheap mic with a great capsule in it, a cheap circuit, a cheap tube, a cheap tranny, a weak/just enough to get by PSU(every chinese mic i've ever touched), and i'll show you a strident lurchy cheap sounding mic that actually DOES sound better than the same cheap mic with the stock capsule, but only marginally better. As always, the circuit design and all the parts matter huge, the weird part is the cost diff between top of the line parts and junk ain't that much, but bean counters be counting dem beans.... Also, hearing a mic at AES for a couple minutes doesn't constitute a worthy evaluation IME, I've been there done that. I can take that even further as I've built and owned many mics, mood dependent...? sometimes they will initially strike me as "wow!" and then the wow factor goes away with some further use, sometimes they initially hit me as "mehhh", then with more testing i discover it's better than i initially thought, it takes time in your own environment to suss out DECENT gear, on the other hand i can usually hear a worthless piece of it in a sec or two in any environment 8) Yep Mocs are like speakers in that respect, and the low cost part of the market knows the smile sells ! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2015 0:26:04 GMT -6
I guess it is more like: A good capsule in a cheap circuit can sound good, a bad capsule in the most expensive one not.
Let's face it, a good capsule doesn't need necessarily a tube circuit to sound good. Not much needed to make at least a decent mic with a good capsule....IMHO.
Upgrade a cheaper mic with quality parts and the biggest difference *will* be the capsule ... in most if not all cases.
There i am largely the same opinion as popmann.
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 14, 2015 9:14:20 GMT -6
I agree that listening at a show like AES has huge pitfalls. Still, it can be enlightening too.
The Samar ribbon mics i tried were undoubtedly high quality, and I could tell that from the demo I listened to. On the other hand, there were two MXL mics I heard that were surprisingly good sounding, but it would definitely take having them in your own studio to really tell if they're any good. I have an $800 mic right now on loan that sounded great at AES two years ago, but in my place doesn't cut it.
The thing that was good about AES is that I could weed out some things, and then try to take a second look under better circumstances at the mics that were interesting. The MXL Cr89 sounded great there, I'd love to shoot that out for acoustic guitar recording against my Blackspade UM-17B and a KM84. I have a hunch it'll hold its own, but until you have it in your hand, who knows..
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Nov 14, 2015 12:40:42 GMT -6
I still contend that capsules are 90% of the sound.
|
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Nov 14, 2015 13:33:11 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback Martin. I would be really impressed if MXL could crank out something truly high end. They got the price point right. I feel like for that price they have most of the ingredients one would need to make a darn good mic, I just wonder if they can or have put it all together. I feel like if a lot of the people on this board could advise some of these companies they could really step up their game. Who knows, I wonder what's going on behind the curtain at MXL.
Also agree with the posters saying the amplifier circuit in the mic is also pretty darn important. A bad capsule can just ruin the whole thing, though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Nov 14, 2015 16:01:25 GMT -6
As others have said - good electronics can only enhance a good cap. It can't make up for a bad one. On the other hand, a great cap can make bad electronics sound MUCH better.
|
|
