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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 12, 2015 7:17:15 GMT -6
Jazz, if you can't tuna fish, you can't tuna drums... Seriously, I have the same struggles. Has anyone here used the drum dial? Does that thing help at all? Wiz said he uses it, what's the verdict? It works very well, it's a tympanic pressure measuring device(all analog 8), I've used it to record tune settings, and it's gotten me very close to where I'm aiming to go when changing heads, very quickly, tunebot works, but is finicky and tempramental by comparison ime, I own both.
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Post by svart on Nov 12, 2015 7:43:19 GMT -6
Jazz, if you can't tuna fish, you can't tuna drums... Seriously, I have the same struggles. Has anyone here used the drum dial? Does that thing help at all? Wiz said he uses it, what's the verdict? I've bought the drum dial twice over the years, from two different manufacturers. Neither time worked out. Since it measures tension, and not all heads have perfect thickness all the way around, I was always "off" somewhere, and it was no where near repeatable as they say, even on the same head. If the head stretched and thinned unevenly, you could forget about trying to use tension as the tuning method. Nevermind that you can't tune to a note with a drum dial. You can wing it and find a note around a tension, but it's not the same. Tunebot works great, you just have to get used to using it. It has a "filter" function that is indispensable. I can get a drum with new heads, bedded in, and tuned in less than 3 minutes. It's made me superman in drum tracking sessions when folks come in with "tuned by ear drums" that sound horrendous. Drummers are notoriously tone deaf, and it shows. As a drummer, I'm just as anal about drum tuning as a guitarist is about their guitar, but 98% of the drummers I've tracked show zero interest in tuning, or even replacing heads, for that matter. Dudes show up with duct tape holding their heads together and give me the "but it sounds good at practice" line all the time.. So I have a stack of used, but good, heads from my personal set that I put on sets that drummers bring in. Then I tune them. Then all of a sudden drummers want to know how to tune drums when they hear what they could be sounding like..
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 12, 2015 8:26:05 GMT -6
Jazz, if you can't tuna fish, you can't tuna drums... Seriously, I have the same struggles. Has anyone here used the drum dial? Does that thing help at all? Wiz said he uses it, what's the verdict? I've bought the drum dial twice over the years, from two different manufacturers. Neither time worked out. Since it measures tension, and not all heads have perfect thickness all the way around, I was always "off" somewhere, and it was no where near repeatable as they say, even on the same head. If the head stretched and thinned unevenly, you could forget about trying to use tension as the tuning method. Nevermind that you can't tune to a note with a drum dial. You can wing it and find a note around a tension, but it's not the same. Tunebot works great, you just have to get used to using it. It has a "filter" function that is indispensable. I can get a drum with new heads, bedded in, and tuned in less than 3 minutes. It's made me superman in drum tracking sessions when folks come in with "tuned by ear drums" that sound horrendous. Drummers are notoriously tone deaf, and it shows. As a drummer, I'm just as anal about drum tuning as a guitarist is about their guitar, but 98% of the drummers I've tracked show zero interest in tuning, or even replacing heads, for that matter. Dudes show up with duct tape holding their heads together and give me the "but it sounds good at practice" line all the time.. So I have a stack of used, but good, heads from my personal set that I put on sets that drummers bring in. Then I tune them. Then all of a sudden drummers want to know how to tune drums when they hear what they could be sounding like.. I see that there is a Tunebot Gig and a Tunebot (<both are links if it's not obvious). Which one are you guys using? What's the advantage of the more expensive version?
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 12, 2015 8:40:48 GMT -6
I've bought the drum dial twice over the years, from two different manufacturers. Neither time worked out. Since it measures tension, and not all heads have perfect thickness all the way around, I was always "off" somewhere, and it was no where near repeatable as they say, even on the same head. If the head stretched and thinned unevenly, you could forget about trying to use tension as the tuning method. Nevermind that you can't tune to a note with a drum dial. You can wing it and find a note around a tension, but it's not the same. Tunebot works great, you just have to get used to using it. It has a "filter" function that is indispensable. I can get a drum with new heads, bedded in, and tuned in less than 3 minutes. It's made me superman in drum tracking sessions when folks come in with "tuned by ear drums" that sound horrendous. Drummers are notoriously tone deaf, and it shows. As a drummer, I'm just as anal about drum tuning as a guitarist is about their guitar, but 98% of the drummers I've tracked show zero interest in tuning, or even replacing heads, for that matter. Dudes show up with duct tape holding their heads together and give me the "but it sounds good at practice" line all the time.. So I have a stack of used, but good, heads from my personal set that I put on sets that drummers bring in. Then I tune them. Then all of a sudden drummers want to know how to tune drums when they hear what they could be sounding like.. I see that there is a Tunebot Gig and a Tunebot (<both are links if it's not obvious). Which one are you guys using? What's the advantage of the more expensive version? i have the expensive version, but like i said, it's finicky and temperamental, IME it doesn't matter what tuning device you use, in the end you are going to have to use ur ears to level the lugs on the drum, once you're close(which these will get you), it's no harder than turning the wobble out while tuning a guitar, it takes all of 15 seconds per drum for me at this point.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 12, 2015 8:48:59 GMT -6
I see that there is a Tunebot Gig and a Tunebot (<both are links if it's not obvious). Which one are you guys using? What's the advantage of the more expensive version? i have the expensive version, but like i said, it's finicky and temperamental, IME it doesn't matter what tuning device you use, in the end you are going to have to use ur ears to level the lugs on the drum, once you're close(which these will get you), it's no harder than turning the wobble out while tuning a guitar, it takes all of 15 seconds per drum for me at this point. Tone, it looks like there is a digital and analog version of the drum dial. I have to imagine that the digital is better?
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 12, 2015 8:54:57 GMT -6
i have the expensive version, but like i said, it's finicky and temperamental, IME it doesn't matter what tuning device you use, in the end you are going to have to use ur ears to level the lugs on the drum, once you're close(which these will get you), it's no harder than turning the wobble out while tuning a guitar, it takes all of 15 seconds per drum for me at this point. Tone, it looks like there is a digital and analog version of the drum dial. I have to imagine that the digital is better? I never tried the digital, but my guess is it's easier to read? the analog meter on mine requires bending over to acquire proper perspective for accurate needle to indicator mark reading..... i hate bending over! haha
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Post by svart on Nov 12, 2015 8:55:22 GMT -6
I've bought the drum dial twice over the years, from two different manufacturers. Neither time worked out. Since it measures tension, and not all heads have perfect thickness all the way around, I was always "off" somewhere, and it was no where near repeatable as they say, even on the same head. If the head stretched and thinned unevenly, you could forget about trying to use tension as the tuning method. Nevermind that you can't tune to a note with a drum dial. You can wing it and find a note around a tension, but it's not the same. Tunebot works great, you just have to get used to using it. It has a "filter" function that is indispensable. I can get a drum with new heads, bedded in, and tuned in less than 3 minutes. It's made me superman in drum tracking sessions when folks come in with "tuned by ear drums" that sound horrendous. Drummers are notoriously tone deaf, and it shows. As a drummer, I'm just as anal about drum tuning as a guitarist is about their guitar, but 98% of the drummers I've tracked show zero interest in tuning, or even replacing heads, for that matter. Dudes show up with duct tape holding their heads together and give me the "but it sounds good at practice" line all the time.. So I have a stack of used, but good, heads from my personal set that I put on sets that drummers bring in. Then I tune them. Then all of a sudden drummers want to know how to tune drums when they hear what they could be sounding like.. I see that there is a Tunebot Gig and a Tunebot (<both are links if it's not obvious). Which one are you guys using? What's the advantage of the more expensive version? I use the original one, which looks like the more expensive version. I didn't even know they had a cheaper version.. The cheaper version looks to have the tuning functions, but lacks the saving and filtering options.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 12, 2015 9:03:36 GMT -6
I see that there is a Tunebot Gig and a Tunebot (<both are links if it's not obvious). Which one are you guys using? What's the advantage of the more expensive version? I use the original one, which looks like the more expensive version. I didn't even know they had a cheaper version.. The cheaper version looks to have the tuning functions, but lacks the saving and filtering options. ...and the filter is indispensable, as you stated above. It looks like the expensive Tunebot and the digital Drum Dial are the way to go then.
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 12, 2015 9:09:58 GMT -6
I use the original one, which looks like the more expensive version. I didn't even know they had a cheaper version.. The cheaper version looks to have the tuning functions, but lacks the saving and filtering options. ...and the filter is indispensable, as you stated above. It looks like the expensive Tunebot and the digital Drum Dial are the way to go then. i honestly wouldn't get rid of either, my drummer buddies all have both, at the very least, they are good documentation and security tools if someone has an odd request you need to work out.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 12, 2015 9:43:44 GMT -6
...and the filter is indispensable, as you stated above. It looks like the expensive Tunebot and the digital Drum Dial are the way to go then. i honestly wouldn't get rid of either, my drummer buddies all have both, at the very least, they are good documentation and security tools if someone has an odd request you need to work out. I've been considering them for years, but have always seen mixed reviews on them, so just stuck with tuning by ear. I'm too old to waste all that time tuning now. If I can save myself some time with these gadgets, it'll be worthwhile.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 13, 2015 20:14:51 GMT -6
Tuning snare drums is challenging, for sure. It seems like every little change makes a difference, which it does.
My starting point is a coated two-ply top head like an Evans G2, or any brand's equivalent, with or without a center dot, and a single-ply bottom head. I just don't seem to like the single ply top heads.
The top head will set the pitch of the drum and the general characteristic, along with the shell of the drum itself. You should carefully tune each lug to the same pitch by ear or with a tuner, I do it by ear, it's not that hard if you have a good ear for pitch. You need to learn to tune all your drums this way. You might need some small muffling if the drum is particularly ringy, I use a Moongel cut into smaller pieces, usually only one small piece will do what I want. A center dot can sometimes do the same thing. Larger drums like toms might need 2 or 3 small pieces of gel.
The bottom head and the snare wire tension will set the "feel" of the drum to some degree. Too tight and it's choked up, too loose and it sounds floppy and weak. You seem to always hear people recommending a fairly tight tension, which has been my finding as well. But also not overly, insanely tight. The thickness of the bottom head can effect the tone here as well, I have a friend, who is a pro, that swears by a slightly thicker 5 mil bottom head on his snares. He does get a darker snare sound.
Other than finding sweet spots for the drum, or the song, you really need to have a few different snare drums to choose from. That can make the biggest difference. I personally own six different snares and I don't think I'm done yet either. Different materials and thicknesses have a massive effect on the sound of the drum. I personally don't think I would play a piccolo, but I like big fat and loud drums with a strong lower end presence. They can still crack and cut, but with a body to back it up. It's purely down to taste I'm sure. Also you probably can't argue with the drummer you're recording, in which case maybe mic selection could play some role in adjusting the tone. I used an N/D468 on a piccolo snare in a session and got a pretty thick tone. That mic has a strong proximity effect.
Anyway this is something I'm still learning about and involved with, good luck.
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