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Post by Guitar on Nov 18, 2015 16:42:27 GMT -6
Man you guys got me feelin' all GASsy.
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Post by Guitar on Sept 1, 2016 8:25:12 GMT -6
I just picked up Oxide. Haven't used it on a real project yet but my demos were sounding really good. I also was not a big fan of the Slate VTM when I tried it. I am a big Ampex ATR-102 believer. Studer sounded a lot "heavier" than the Oxide in my demos, and there were more "wrong" settings on it, so I am not sure if I'll get that one later or not.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 1, 2016 8:56:51 GMT -6
I use the ATR-102 on my 2 bus, but only the 30 ips mastering setting or the Smooth Vocal, the others aren't 2 bus style presets last time I tried them. In a way, the ATR-102 is like a giant EQ setting, Fortunately, it's really clean and can be dialed in gently if needed. That said, it just doesn't sound like tape, it sounds like a super cool processor.
The Slate was way too heavy sounding to me, and I got rid of it.
Now, Oxide is different. I have a few other Waves tape sims, and they're dull. Oxide is the first, and the only tape sim I'e used that feels like tape, not just sounds "like", it actually feels like tape to me. so I use it on a few tracks. Recently, i've managed to achieve some of the best vocal sounds I've ever gotten using it.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Sept 1, 2016 11:40:11 GMT -6
can you explain what "feels like tape" means?
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Post by donr on Sept 1, 2016 15:31:34 GMT -6
The trick with Slate or any of them for that matter is to use lower input levels than you ever would with a real tape recorder, and back off the noise parameter if you don't want it.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 1, 2016 16:24:50 GMT -6
can you explain what "feels like tape" means? Sure, uhh.. maybe... I'll try :-) I've recorded at some legendary studios, on boards that are considered holy grail type boards now. I also did decades of small studio recording, all to tape. I've used all the big name tape machines many, many times. My story is unusual because I left the music business for a long time, so it was only 4 years ago when I began using a DAW to record myself at home with a digital system. The sound was shocking to me. It was strangely harsh and the instruments seemed disconnected. I've learned much since then and some of what I didn't like was my fault, but a lot of it was because it was digital. I have a belief that we don't fully understand all there is to understand about the human sensory system. I believe we react to sound on multiple levels, almost instinctively. Millions of years of evolution refined our senses tremendously, and with the Oxide plug, my body and bones responded like I was hearing tape, something was familiar. It was more than a good imitation of the sound quality of tape, I thought I was hearing tape, and that was the first time that's happened to me when using a tape sim plugin. It felt right, so it wasn't just an intellectual discernment, but a gut feeling. Other tape sims were in a way, more like giant equalizers, really nice, but they didn't sound like a tape recorder, Oxide did.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 1, 2016 16:47:36 GMT -6
So, to you, Oxide felt like tape ?
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Post by Guitar on Sept 1, 2016 16:52:47 GMT -6
When I was demo-ing Oxide, my first instinct was to crank it all the way up and compare it to my sensory memories of using the Tascam Porta Studio cassette recorder. I was playing DI guitar and bass so "feel" was a big factor. In this case, I added an 1176 blue stripe and a UA 610A and 610B preamp to the mix, just because I could. Well, I have to say, that is some of the best DI guitar and bass tone I have ever heard. I felt this weird uncanny feeling of playing through hardware, a sort of disbelief, can a computer do all that?
It is one thing to use a plugin on your mix, it is another thing to plug into a plugin and play through it. UAD is really good for that, if you have an Apollo. If you don't have an Apollo, the round-trip latency of the UAD plugins in a DAW is going to be a dealbreaker for live tracking. But I have an Apollo, and I found the Oxide plugin to give me something along the lines of plugging into my old 4-track machine. On the bass, especially, the low end got rounded out and filled up in a really pleasant way, at more moderate gain settings. The explosive distortion may not be 100% accurate. That seems to be the point where the plugins really start to show their limitations vs the hardware. But it was close enough that I was worried that my computer was going to explode, which is a crazy imagination to have when plugging into a sound card.
To my experience, no other manufacturer I have tried has done a better tape emulation than Universal Audio, in fact, it's the only one I am happy to use. At this point, UAD would surprise me more by falling short than they would by producing a top tier plugin. Also I got Oxide for $49 by the way. I can't find a whole lot to complain about.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 1, 2016 17:05:42 GMT -6
^^this^^ peeps will each develop their own preferred workflow, but it is important to realize that UA has developed its own ecosystem from tracking, including di of electric guitars and basses to mixing and you can route vi's through the ua plugs in console while tracking too and as mentioned above you have the unison pres.
I have run an apollo for over 4 years now and only started using console with UA for tracking recently. Its a positive experience.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 1, 2016 19:15:53 GMT -6
I too find Console helpful, but mainly for early tracking with plugs. I have only a Duo, and if I keep a few plugs on during my tracking, I run out of DSP fast. It's not UAD's fault, I just need more firepower.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Sept 1, 2016 22:03:14 GMT -6
can you explain what "feels like tape" means? Sure, uhh.. maybe... I'll try :-) I've recorded at some legendary studios, on boards that are considered holy grail type boards now. I also did decades of small studio recording, all to tape. I've used all the big name tape machines many, many times. My story is unusual because I left the music business for a long time, so it was only 4 years ago when I began using a DAW to record myself at home with a digital system. The sound was shocking to me. It was strangely harsh and the instruments seemed disconnected. I've learned much since then and some of what I didn't like was my fault, but a lot of it was because it was digital. I have a belief that we don't fully understand all there is to understand about the human sensory system. I believe we react to sound on multiple levels, almost instinctively. Millions of years of evolution refined our senses tremendously, and with the Oxide plug, my body and bones responded like I was hearing tape, something was familiar. It was more than a good imitation of the sound quality of tape, I thought I was hearing tape, and that was the first time that's happened to me when using a tape sim plugin. It felt right, so it wasn't just an intellectual discernment, but a gut feeling. Other tape sims were in a way, more like giant equalizers, really nice, but they didn't sound like a tape recorder, Oxide did. ummm, none of this is describing what tape feels like lol. This is mainly about your experience using non-tape equipment. Can anyone chime in and say stuff like "tape kinda rolls off the sound the way tubes do" or "it warms up the sound as though you rolled off the highs and slurred the transients with an LA2A"?
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Post by wiz on Sept 1, 2016 22:31:21 GMT -6
Gaffa, sounds like SHHUUUUTTTTTCH
Packing tape sounds like.... RRRRIIIIIIIIIIPPPPHHHHH
and masking tape sounds like...
Oh wait...
I may have missed the point
8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by wiz on Sept 1, 2016 22:35:15 GMT -6
My tape experience is very limited, and with not so super pro stuff...
Bob O did say that the kramer tape plug in, sounded a lot like the real machine it was modelled on, do you have that? the plug in?
All the tape I used, sounded noisy (hiss) and could do weird things to pitch (wow and flutter) and I used noise reduction systems (dbx dolby etc)
Now, the really good expensive machines, dunno, never used one.... So the question is kinda a bit open....
I once had a mix run though a basically NOS Teac Reel to Reel a friend bought.. he had just had it serviced, it had no hours on it.. and he used new tape, I can't remember the model number.. but it was financially in reach of a home studio, I recall that.. I remember the bounce he did through it, didn't do much for me.
i am thinking really high end tape and tape machine really well aligned, might be cool though...
cheers
Wiz
(figured I better write something other than my joke post)
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 2, 2016 8:29:23 GMT -6
nofilterchuck said, "ummm, none of this is describing what tape feels like lol. This is mainly about your experience using non-tape equipment".
Chuck, when you wrote LOL, I can't tell if you're laughing with me or at me. Ever try describing a feeling? I think you'd find it's not easy, and I'm doing my best for you.
What I'm attempting to describe is not in fact technical, it's not "low end has more"... or "high end has"... or the "grit" is grittier", etc. Simply put, my response to the sound when I recorded to tape was quite different to my response when using a tape sim.
There's a quality to real tape that specs can't fully explain. My best description would fall into typical cliche` territory. "Warmth" isn't comprehensive enough. Overall what I hear is a better balance, lows are fuller, sound feels wider, highs smoother, yet it doesn't feel like you're losing anything or bumping up anything. It's much closer to an instinct than something I can properly describe. It's related much more to deep inner feelings than intellect. Basically, a gut response, and the Oxide plug unexpectedly gave me that same response I get from tape.
All this doesn't mean it's the next best greatest thing since the moon landing, just that of all the tape sims I've heard, only Oxide gave me that little rush in the gut you get when remembering something you'd forgotten, but was very familiar with.
(Wiz, I do have the Kramer, and I just don't like the sound of that machine very much, so I can't speak to the quality of the sim).
Chuck, think of real tape like adding tubes to the sound, tubes with a fuller, wider bottom, a more natural bloom, and a high end that's not as edgy. I'd call it muscle. Voices benefit greatly from real tape, as do drums.
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Post by Guitar on Sept 2, 2016 8:49:55 GMT -6
I understand what you're saying, Martin. Tape almost has more of a "vibe" than a "sound" to it. And it's a complex one. A lot of other tape emulators seem to get some of the sound right, but not the vibe or feeling of believability.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Sept 2, 2016 11:26:51 GMT -6
Chuck, think of real tape like adding tubes to the sound, tubes with a fuller, wider bottom, a more natural bloom, and a high end that's not as edgy. I'd call it muscle. Voices benefit greatly from real tape, as do drums. ^ THIS This is the kind of description I was hoping someone would post. Now I know what to listen for when I use these tape sim plugins. :-)
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 2, 2016 14:47:16 GMT -6
Part of my problem when I was looking for a mic that best suited my voice, was that most of my references were recorded on tape, so it's not easily duplicated digitally.
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Post by drsax on Sept 4, 2016 21:47:58 GMT -6
I've had the same experience with UAD Oxide. Reminds me more of my time using real tape than any other plugin I've used. Yes, it's a feeling. Can't completely quantify or explain it. I LOVE the sound of the UAD Ampex for drum buss and some other things... But Oxide seems more reactive to me in a way that feels like real tape. I already had the UAD Studer and Ampex and wasn't looking for more tape emulations. I demo'ed Oxide on a whim and bought it on the spot. It has been real useful. Tested it on the master buss on a mix a while ago and forgot to take it off. Mixed the whole tune and then Realized it was still turned on. I turned it off and my mix fell apart. So... it stayed on the mix. It's a pretty impressive plugin.
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