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Post by odyssey76 on Oct 27, 2015 14:40:11 GMT -6
Just got the email for this: plugin-alliance.com/en/products/bx_console.htmlWhat gets my attention is how they describe the console plugin sound and the fact that they have emulated the channel strips individually with their differences between channels. Dirk talks about phase differences between the stereo channels (in a good way) as being responsible for bigger and deeper tracks which I always believed the analog console sounds better. Who knows, I don't get too excited about plugins these days but I'll certainly give it a 14 day demo when I have some tunes to mix. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 27, 2015 17:30:10 GMT -6
I was never crazy about the V series. Waves also models different channels so I'm a bit surprised by their claim. Now it could be that it always brings up something slightly different whereas with waves you need to select the channels.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2015 20:42:01 GMT -6
There's probably something to the phase difference between channels...
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 28, 2015 8:55:05 GMT -6
The phase difference is why analog gear can seem wide. I tried my Jensen isolation transformers for widening but it didn't work like my API 550s with their cheap transformers did!
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 28, 2015 8:57:44 GMT -6
I might try the Waves version again with different channels in place of VCC which I use all the time...
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 28, 2015 12:24:52 GMT -6
I've liked the waves channels combined with the slate buss unless I use a tape emulation instead.
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Post by popmann on Oct 28, 2015 13:53:43 GMT -6
Can someone fix floating point/buffer based summing before we slather more digital vaseline on the lens? Bob, are you running an HDX system in your new box? That's one of the things unavailable (at least publicly) in their lit....what role the hardware mixer plays outside of the cue mix. I rememebr there being some mention of the FPGA handling summing....but....I never could find that in print.
I mean, summing on a fixed bit real time digital mixer absolutely does NOT null with a buffer based floating point.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 28, 2015 15:52:44 GMT -6
I'm not running any Avid hardware. I just mix my own stuff that was recorded elsewhere.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 28, 2015 15:55:57 GMT -6
A fixed bit mixer typically requires a different approach to dithering than a floating point.
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 28, 2015 16:23:02 GMT -6
As always.. First hype, than we go back to a real console. I have wasted too much live time with those summing plug ins, they never reacted like the real deal. |
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Post by ragan on Oct 28, 2015 18:06:02 GMT -6
I did a quick mix using only this console/channel strip this afternoon and I was pleasantly surprised at the overall sonic character. Really warm and nice. Could just be that limiting my choices made them smarter, but I'm definitely going to give it more time and dig in some more. The low end seems really nice and center density of the whole thing was better than where the mix was before.
Again, could just be choices, could be great analog modeling. Yet to be determined.
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Post by Guitar on Oct 28, 2015 19:42:58 GMT -6
I'm just excited to see the plugin world blow up right now. In my mind, hardware is expensive and amazing, but plugins are cheap and pretty amazing, and quick! I know brainworx has ties with UAD and that gives them some cred in my book. I also like the Waves stuff. This seems to be the bleeding edge of audio technology right now, and I've got my popcorn ready.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 29, 2015 4:12:57 GMT -6
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,951 
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Post by ericn on Oct 29, 2015 9:15:06 GMT -6
For the money I'm sticking to Harrison MiX bus! It Just sounds so good!
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Post by ragan on Oct 29, 2015 13:03:43 GMT -6
For the money I'm sticking to Harrison MiX bus! It Just sounds so good! I've always wanted to dig into Mixbus. Similar concept. I just can't hack the clunky editing and general bugginess. Does it run pretty smooth for you? I admittedly haven't spent much time with it. |
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Post by 79sg on Oct 29, 2015 13:21:51 GMT -6
I've been using Mixbus since version 2 and yes it sounds great. Version 3 has had too many cpu spikes that crashes my sessions when using certain plugins or virtual instruments. My Spectrasonics instruments are hit or miss with it so I will wait until it develops further. I do like the workflow. To me there's still nothing like the real thing.
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Post by winetree on Oct 29, 2015 15:03:52 GMT -6
Did you install the latest update for Mixbus # 3.0.2257 ?
It fixes a lot of bugs.
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Post by popmann on Dec 15, 2015 11:02:13 GMT -6
A fixed bit mixer typically requires a different approach to dithering than a floating point. Oh, Grand Poobah. This comment has haunted me. Teach me why I can't stand the sound of floating point summing. I have no issue with digital summing--be it on Totalmix (some oddball depth 36bit? fixed) now or the 56bit fixed Akai previously. So, the way I'm doing it now is simple--I've got like 5-6 stereo busses and 4 mono that feed out of Cubase's 32bit float engine....post fader UV22hr* set to 24bit/high/autoblack....I can tell the difference BLINDLY 100% of the time. This comment you made a while back has haunted me because if there's a way I can "approach dither" to be able to get this sound rendering in software, I want to know that--call it my Christmas present. As I dismantle the beast....if I can sum in software, it frees up a LOT of other design choices.... What I know--the approach is NOT to just dither the stereo output and save as a 24bit file. Nope. I sort of can't technically imagine the approach would be to dither within the mixer, but maybe it is...but, I wanted you to clarify if you would, what the proper "approach to dither" would be--IF it's end user initiated. If its implemented at the app level, I'd point out they're all "taking the wrong approach", because IME, they all null now and no fixed bit I've used recently does null with floating point. Whatever the Akai was doing, it was automagically done by the engine, because the word dither appears no where in the manual--let alone have any way to set/alter it. *and I know you're not a fan, so feel free to recommend "better dither" for me to try-it's included with Cubase, thus why I use it |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 15, 2015 11:11:38 GMT -6
Most mixers are 64 or 80 bit float so the trip down to 24 for a D to A is the only thing seriously requiring dither. I've been using the PSP x dither or the Sonnox dynamics plug in with everything but dither turned off.
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Post by popmann on Dec 15, 2015 14:22:05 GMT -6
Hmmm. And yet they all null....none null with fixed bit, IME. Really? Ok. Thanks.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 16, 2015 15:42:48 GMT -6
Fixed bit should never null if it's properly dithered. Floating point shouldn't if the resulting fixed bit file has been dithered to 24. Ideally nothing should ever null. Audio processing that nulls due to truncation is mathematically wrong!
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Post by popmann on Dec 17, 2015 14:28:36 GMT -6
Well, I got everything to null yesterday, save the vocal reverb which is a random hall algo....but, only on relatively simple projects without significant bussing. The full "complete" project won't null between summing on the RME and internal to Cubase. Cubase's real time and offline render does though--so, if it's malfunctioning, it's doing so to sample level consistency!  I'm spending the time because if I can get Cubase to sound as good summing as the RME, I'm going to move to just the Macbook and Kronos after the holidays. But, on big projects, OCD level matched....I blindly pick the RME as better sounding 100% of the time. On the small projects, I couldn't really tell a difference--which makes sense....since afterwards they nulled, save the reverb. I have o give some thought to how Cubase is compensating the busses vs directly assigning to outputs. It may be that they're not compensating for the busses....but ARE compensating for the various outputs busses are assigned to when summing on the RME. I basically have the internal busses being mapped to outputs when summing on the RME, where (obviously) when summing inside Cubase all the busses go to one set of outputs. |
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Post by brucerothwell on Dec 20, 2015 22:06:27 GMT -6
I have a Metric Halo ULN-2, with 80-bit summing -- PT tracks route into its 18 channels via Firewire. Very good sounding to me.
I have also heard Mixbus offers great summing, but has seen comments from another ULN-2 user that uses Mixbus, and cannot hear a difference in the summing.
How does anyone here think about the Metric Halo summing?
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