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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2013 0:32:14 GMT -6
I just saw, that Uli now actually sells the 8200.
Midas pres (Behringer bought Midas a while ago, same with KlarkTecnic), Cirrus chip update after the desaster with the last ADA8000(that had Cirrus with AUTOMUTE, lol). Non-detented pots (a major pain in the 8000).
TL072 changed to NJM4580. (On the list of opamps that i don't like...sigh)
Switcher PSU.
So it doesn't run hot. And even works for longer at 110V (another LOL in the old machine...). But well, a switcher....
Still cheap enough that it could be worth it if you need channels and are broke...and might even sound not bad. The midas pres in the live consoles sound quite good. Why shouldn't these?
330Euros/8pre-in/8out/ADAT singlespeed.
Best regards,
Martin
PS: Seems they have now additonal unbalanced line-ins, too, could be interesting, maybe bypassing the pres? Haven't seen too much from the innards or service manual...
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 1, 2013 11:11:29 GMT -6
cool, curious to see what the mod guys come up with on this? The automute was a colossal fail lol! but modded the ada8000 was pretty usable, a lot of guys over at groupdiy, improved the psu, bypassed the pre's and just used it as a converter, if memory serves me correct?
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Post by scumbum on Oct 1, 2013 11:21:46 GMT -6
Wow , that looks cool ! I wonder how good those Midas pres are .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2013 14:09:13 GMT -6
Hey Tony,
the guys from 220V-Europe mostly run them unmodded. These units used not only half of the transformer primary, lol, and therefore can be run relatively safe from dying fast. But were hot too, but well...
Still have two of them in stock that i used a while in the live recording rack.
And they did their job.
I dont't know if modding really does it in these ones. Except PSU of course. I think building an external psu did it mostly. The guys that did opamp upgrades didn't gain much, if any.
The XLRs were connected wrong, so they were out-of-phase, but no deal really.
Pre-bypassing, ok. But the pres were not that bad designwise, there was nothing really wrong with them.
Also, modding SMD PCBs from Behringer...not that modding friendly. I always had a hard time with their thru-hole PCBs already and i guess modding with their SMD PCBs is not easier...
The satin red look in the new ones reminds me of the first Behringer products, made in Germany, not China.
They had a red-on-black design, too...
I remember their first compressor was not bad at all. Used in many studios....
Sigh.
Best regards,
Martin
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Post by jazznoise on Oct 1, 2013 15:31:15 GMT -6
The big issues on the ADA8000's was indeed the power supply - the regulators are fed way too high a voltage and they don't have heatsinks.
I should know, I saw the writing on the wall with the 8200 out and decided to pick up some ADA8000's since some people would be trading up. Turned one on and the ripple cap blew. Ugh, the smell!
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Post by scumbum on Oct 1, 2013 16:30:23 GMT -6
My ADA8000 has an issue , maybe you guys would know what is wrong with it . It works fine for like 15-20 minutes , but then I start getting audio drop out . I'll record something and there will be random spots where small chunks of audio is missing . The unit gets pretty warm too .
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Post by jazznoise on Oct 1, 2013 16:50:57 GMT -6
Probably the power supply. If the 5v rail is dropping out you'd see the unit still working but the ADAT and AD/DA stages would be turning on and off. Find a friend with a Digital Multimeter and a brain who likes beer and see if you can figure it out between ye. If not, carte-blanch replacing the regulators is cheap and easy.
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Post by scumbum on Oct 2, 2013 10:37:04 GMT -6
Probably the power supply. If the 5v rail is dropping out you'd see the unit still working but the ADAT and AD/DA stages would be turning on and off. Find a friend with a Digital Multimeter and a brain who likes beer and see if you can figure it out between ye. If not, carte-blanch replacing the regulators is cheap and easy. Thanks for the advice ! I did some looking around on the net and found a thread talking about the problems with the ADA8000 power supply and how to fix it , showing the caps and regulators to replace . Behringer really screwed up designing this power supply . billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10548 |
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Post by jazznoise on Oct 2, 2013 15:33:17 GMT -6
The main problem with the ADA8000 PSU design is that the voltage reaching the regulators is too high. A couple of Zeners would be the no brains solution, but opinions are like assholes. Why they didn't just heatsink them to the chassey I'll never know, but you could use some small passive radiator heatsinks too.
The fixes are cheap and so are the problem parts. Nothing lasts forever and I'd rather the replacements be simple, cheap stuff like this.
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Post by wreck on Oct 4, 2013 12:01:40 GMT -6
All have i heard about the X32 is great things, but I have recently been to three concerts with the X32 at the helm and all of them sounded horrible compared to the sound system that preceded it. The last show had the opening bands running thru the X32 and the headliner through an actual midas board and the midas board didn't slaughter the behringer, it took it apart, spit on each part, shat on it cumulatively and kicked it down the sewer drain. There could be a million explanations for this, but every time I looked at the engineer hovering over the x32 he was scrathing his head wondering why his show sounded like shit. Then, for some reason, he brags about how great the board is. I don't know what is going on, but I have been very disappointed with the shows I have seen lately when it has been the main board.
It's probably the same pres in this 8200.
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Post by scumbum on Oct 4, 2013 12:22:37 GMT -6
All have i heard about the X32 is great things, but I have recently been to three concerts with the X32 at the helm and all of them sounded horrible compared to the sound system that preceded it. The last show had the opening bands running thru the X32 and the headliner through an actual midas board and the midas board didn't slaughter the behringer, it took it apart, spit on each part, shat on it cumulatively and kicked it down the sewer drain. There could be a million explanations for this, but every time I looked at the engineer hovering over the x32 he was scrathing his head wondering why his show sounded like shit. Then, for some reason, he brags about how great the board is. I don't know what is going on, but I have been very disappointed with the shows I have seen lately when it has been the main board. It's probably the same pres in this 8200. Damn that X32 is expensive !! $3,000 , |
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Post by popmann on Oct 4, 2013 14:28:32 GMT -6
Nashville guys....what's the sorry sounding POS digital thing they've put in at 3rd and Lindsey? Last couple shows I've been to there have been so brittle and "digital".
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Post by svart on Oct 4, 2013 15:46:07 GMT -6
I use an ADA8000 for my headphone pod outputs. Works pretty well. I removed the 5V linear regulator that the logic uses and put in a little switcher and it works fine. I use a single input for my talkback mic input too.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 19, 2014 14:30:17 GMT -6
Anyone use this 8200? They are going to $200 new now. Seems like a dirt cheap way to get a bunch of I/O. These are A/D and D/A right? popmann According to the 3rd and Lindsley page they have a Yamaha LS9 Console. |
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Post by henge on Feb 19, 2014 14:56:16 GMT -6
The last show had the opening bands running thru the X32 and the headliner through an actual midas board and the midas board didn't slaughter the behringer, it took it apart, spit on each part, shat on it cumulatively and kicked it down the sewer drain. Man that's funny! |
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Post by popmann on Feb 19, 2014 17:05:00 GMT -6
Anyone use this 8200? They are going to $200 new now. Seems like a dirt cheap way to get a bunch of I/O. These are A/D and D/A right? popmann According to the 3rd and Lindsley page they have a Yamaha LS9 Console. Fair enough. Another one not to buy.  |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 19, 2014 19:52:08 GMT -6
I gotta say we've got one of these digital consoles at our church and Pop is right, they sound nasty. So much live stuff is going to these. I assume for convenience? Because it certainly isn't for the sound.
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Post by popmann on Feb 19, 2014 21:53:57 GMT -6
I walked out of the last Sheryl Crow show at the Ryman at like half way. The sound was SO bad. Couldn't hear Bramhall's guitar at all, despite having a Super cranked....WTF? All brittle....just horrible--like it was a mix from some OTHER venue that was recalled. Oh wait...as we're walking out, I see the guy adjusting and EQ on an LCD with a mouse....I think it was a Venue system. It's a disturbing trend. I have some kind of "out there" suspicions....you've read the stuff about our brains and PCM sound? Obviously not a ton of science behind it at this point....very hippy dippy bordering on consipracy theory stuff...but, just hook up a Soundcraft or Mackie...I seriously don't see the reasoning. In a touring situation--I see it saving time in terms of routing and to some degree basic monitor mixes....but, the FOH NEEDS to be from scratch every night cause it's a different room....and if it's a house system--it's a different band with different amps and drums, etc...is it worth the 15min a night is saves to PCM the whole show? Ehh...Geritol time...you youngsters turn that shit down!  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2014 9:04:25 GMT -6
jcoutu1, i found a short german forum review with a shootout of the 8200 AD way against much higher priced preamps into RME interface converters (CAPI and DON NV into Multiface and FF800 converters) and results are predictable (because against these pres, it is no wonder, the Behringer Midas pres can't really compete). But nevertheless, it is not as huge a difference, as one might think, not bad at all. Remembering the price tag of the different chains... The reviewer links to a few examples on soundcloud, that might be interesting for you. you can listen blind before reading the info which is which on soundclouds pages.... Benutzer-Review linkIf you want to read the review in english, this link is with google translate, hope it works for you, in my firefox the soundcloud players don't work due to whatever goes wrong in Gooxle.... user reviewBR, Martin
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2014 9:26:06 GMT -6
BTW....
If you ask yourself, how this guy managed to run the unit out of specs in 96khz mode....
External clocking in wordclock slave mode. This works with a number of single-speed converters that use a double-speed capable converter chip but only have singlespeed internal clocks...i know about at least an SMPro budget converter, that can be used this way, too...
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 20, 2014 9:31:58 GMT -6
jcoutu1, i found a short german forum review with a shootout of the 8200 AD way against much higher priced preamps into RME interface converters (CAPI and DON NV into Multiface and FF800 converters) and results are predictable (because against these pres, it is no wonder, the Behringer Midas pres can't really compete). But nevertheless, it is not as huge a difference, as one might think, not bad at all. Remembering the price tag of the different chains... The reviewer links to a few examples on soundcloud, that might be interesting for you. you can listen blind before reading the info which is which on soundclouds pages.... Benutzer-Review linkIf you want to read the review in english, this link is with google translate, hope it works for you, in my firefox the soundcloud players don't work due to whatever goes wrong in Gooxle.... user reviewBR, Martin Thanks Martin, Personally, I'm more interested in the conversion than the preamps. I regularly mix at a venue with a Soundcraft console in place and would be using those pres. I'm trying to figure out the best, low cost, least intrusive way to capture the direct outs from the board into Pro Tools. The other engineer that I work with (who has been there for 15 years vs my 2) has an Alesis HD24 in place that he uses with a second unit set up in his studio, so he just swaps drives between the units for recording and mixing. I could grab an Alesis drive caddy and try to deal with file transfer to my system, but I'd rather grab something more modern that would integrate better. The Alesis also had ADAT outs built in, but I'm not sure if they can be used without having a drive in the bay. If those work, taking the Alesis ADAT outs into an interface with multiple ADAT ins would probably be my best option. At the same time, the cost of a used interface with 2 (or more) adat ins would be more than the cost of the new Behringer FC1616 and once of these 8200's. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 20, 2014 9:47:02 GMT -6
That Alesis unit should be really good, especially if it's the XR, J Williams has a mod to make it a radar killer??
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2014 9:58:27 GMT -6
Ah, i see...
Well, i still haven't found someone who opened the box or has the service manual, so i do not know if the line ins really are just padded before going into the pre, like it was done in the ADA8000. But still, to me they sound like a good deal overall, why not line level...
Especially, if they are really only 200 bucks in your country, around here they are 330 Euros, which is 130 Euros more than the old 8000 and quite a bit more expensive overall...
When i got the ADA8000s new, i used two of them in a mobile rig for live recording from venue line levels, too, not bad at all. I always thought they were underrated soundwise because of the technical issues people wrote about.
I understand your issue. Alesis drive caddy....hmmmmmmm, noooo, this is sooo 2001... ;-)
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 20, 2014 10:06:47 GMT -6
That Alesis unit should be really good, especially if it's the XR, J Williams has a mod to make it a radar killer?? It's not the XR, just the standard HD24. The problem is that I need to buy a caddy, hd, dock, and hope that it'll all work when hooking it to my computer to import into Pro Tools. Then deal with the file transfer time. The cheapest interface that I can find with 2 adat inputs is the Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 and goes for around $600 used. Even then, I'm limited to 16 channels unless I want to use the analog outs from the Alesis for 8 channels into the Focusrite. Plus the LS56 is Firewire, which works now, but for how long. Not sure how the latency would differ between the analog and digital outs/ins too. @smallbutfine, I just checked out those Soundcloud files. Had some trouble getting them to load, had to go to the German page to get them to play, then translated the German to English myself and it still worked. Thanks for the link. The drum track sounded much better with the external pres into the Fireface than the ADA, but I think it was mainly due to the pres rather than the conversion. The distorted rhythm guitar track was the most telling I think. I liked the two that used the external pres the best, but the fireface pres + conversion vs. the ADA pres + conversion were pretty much the same ballpark imo. They sounded a little different from each other, but I wouldn't say that one was better than the other like I could with the external pres. Either way, it's pretty interesting. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 20, 2014 10:10:49 GMT -6
Ah, i see... Well, i still haven't found someone who opened the box or has the service manual, so i do not know if the line ins really are just padded before going into the pre, like it was done in the ADA8000. But still, to me they sound like a good deal overall, why not line level... Especially, if they are really only 200 bucks in your country, around here they are 330 Euros, which is 130 Euros more than the old 8000 and quite a bit more expensive overall... When i got the ADA8000s new, i used two of them in a mobile rig for live recording from venue line levels, too, not bad at all. I always thought they were underrated soundwise because of the technical issues people wrote about. I understand your issue. Alesis drive caddy....hmmmmmmm, noooo, this is sooo 2001... ;-) The ADA8200 was selling for $299 USD and the price just dropped to $199 USD. It looks like most Behringer and Midas stuff has recently dropped in price. The Midas VeniceF32 (which I use and probably has these same Behringer converters anyway) was $5999 2 years ago, dropped to $2999 last year, and is now $2219. |
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