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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 30, 2013 18:09:39 GMT -6
I've gone back and forth trying the old smash the OH's with an LA3A...but I tend to treat every song differently...Just wondering if there are some tricks I haven't learned along the way...
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Post by popmann on Sept 30, 2013 18:29:35 GMT -6
For well recorded overheads, I do nothing next to nothing. For home grown tracks, there's usually some phase issues and may involve some drastic EQ. The only thing that's a given is Transient Designer with the sustain reduced a few DB so I can keep them loud without the splashes getting to be too much. I'm a "sound of the overheads is the sound of the kit" guy. I think right now jazz is the only music being recorded for shit. Too bad it's jazz. But, seriously--check the new Gregory Porter. Or one of the recent Jane Monheit. Just to name some on the pop side of the genre--but, the thing is--Linda Rondstadt USED to be produced like that. James Taylor. Clean, clear, erring on the side of euphony. I can trace the same sound from the mid 70s to mid 90s nashville...all analog to all digital...variations on clean and sweet. Anyway, I really hate that that is being abandoned.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2013 19:48:45 GMT -6
It really depends, for stuff that I do if the drummer is wanting a more modern up front sound it's probably going to be high passed at 200-400hz. Sometimes what I do it roll off the highs of the mono room mic at the point I rolled off the lows in the overheads, balance the OH and Room until I get a general kit sound and bring up the close mics to augment it. Almost always sounds cool solo'd but once the guitars and vocals come in it's too distant.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 1, 2013 6:33:44 GMT -6
For well recorded overheads, I do nothing next to nothing. For home grown tracks, there's usually some phase issues and may involve some drastic EQ. The only thing that's a given is Transient Designer with the sustain reduced a few DB so I can keep them loud without the splashes getting to be too much. I'm a "sound of the overheads is the sound of the kit" guy. I think right now jazz is the only music being recorded for shit. Too bad it's jazz. But, seriously--check the new Gregory Porter. Or one of the recent Jane Monheit. Just to name some on the pop side of the genre--but, the thing is--Linda Rondstadt USED to be produced like that. James Taylor. Clean, clear, erring on the side of euphony. I can trace the same sound from the mid 70s to mid 90s nashville...all analog to all digital...variations on clean and sweet. Anyway, I really hate that that is being abandoned. That Gregory Porter album is awesome... I often just leave the OH's and ROOM alone too...
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Post by svart on Oct 1, 2013 7:16:46 GMT -6
This begins with overheads themselves. I use the Gefell M930 which is large diaphragm, so I immediately get more mids and lows than most that use SDCs. These mics also tend to have a little midrange honk too. My room has a little less highs due to the absorption panels but the lows are pretty contained with a lot of basstrapping.
That being said, I generally record through 1272's or SSL9K preamps to the DAW. I always compress with 1176's with medium-fast attack and varying release, usually medium slow. This keeps the "swell" of the cymbals kinda controlled. I'll set the threshold right at the point where things get a little pumpy, but not too much. Just enough to bring the room tone up a little. This is done usually pre-EQ.
EQ usually consists of:
No low cut unless there is something really bad down there. I like the way the mics pick up the extreme low end. Lots of thump, not a lot of mud.
Low shelf cut at -4db or so at 800Hz down. Gets rid of a little of the boom and cleans up the area for bass.
Medium Q cut of -3 to -6db at 400ish Hz. Gets rid of the muddy resonance of the room and drum rumble.
Medium-narrow Q cut of -3 to -6db at 3Khz to 5Khz. Gets rid of the fizzy harmonics of the cymbals and cleans up the area for vocals and guitars.
High shelf boost of MAYBE 2 to 4db at 12khz. Sometimes I use the boost for darker cymbals like K's. Something modern and bright like AAX or A customs usually don't need it.
So that's what gets me my sound and what I think works best in my room. I compress the cymbals separately from the drum bus so I can control the amount of room tone independently from the close mics.
I also like to mix cymbals a lot louder than most people. If they sound good, then they tend to add to the high end so I can use less boost on other instruments. Strange but it works. I feel that the cymbal sounds that most people get really suck and are only a faint shadow of what they were intended to sound like. Cymbals are a very complex sound, probably more so than the drums themselves, and I really love complex shimmering that they make.
As for rooms, I don't really care for the "modern" room sound. It tends to make things sound boxy or overly sparse. I typically record rooms because sometimes I use them for a little midrange definition on the drums.
rooms: Oktava MK219s Similar EQ as the overheads to make them fit together. Usually a little high cut instead of boost. These are pretty smooth mics so I usually don't have problems with the top end.
Maybe some compression, maybe not. Usually not.
Mixed in pretty low, just to the point where I hear a little more mids. I usually parallel compress the drums which gives me more mids that I typically want, so it's a toss up if I'll use the rooms or not.
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Post by jazznoise on Oct 1, 2013 9:47:13 GMT -6
I don't compress them much. Mostly Fairchild style plug-ins - Density MK II, Modern Firechainer, Fairlychildish etc. or I'll use ReaComp but set the RMS window larger for the "Opto" style squish but a particular Attack/Release combo. I'll often end up shelving off the high end a bit, or sometimes around 7Khz if it's just harsh. Vertical cues can help with cymbals, so a dose of 12Khz can pull them "Up" relative to the listener. If you've ever double tracked an instrument and gone "one sounds like it's up higher than the other" this is usually where the big difference is.
I want to know what the album should be sounding like before the first mic is up, including panning, if possible. If the drums are going to need to be dry and aggressive, my overheads go close and I'll use boundary or room mics for ambiance. If that's not a contention or we don't know, I'll just put the OH's where they sound good.
A neat trick for pushing things back is leaving a mic up - just an Omni (mono or AB) or something and recording everything at relative distances to that mic. It's sort of what you get with bleed anyway, but less off axis coloration. I've never done this for anything with a lot of overdubs, but it seemed to work for what I did.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 1, 2013 11:06:12 GMT -6
I'm a "sound of the overheads is the sound of the kit" guy. +1 I also subscribe to distance=depth, and tuned well, you should let em ring. Of course this is subjective, but IME, drums should be the single most time consuming particular in tracking, most of the time spent on understanding the way the drummer plays and the drums themselves, then overhead choice/placement, there is still a lot more after this, but that foundation established is a win.
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