ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Sept 3, 2015 10:13:07 GMT -6
I'm not a hater but I hate the 3630. I had one from the beginning when they first came out. Never thought they were pro, whatever that means. Just seemed like mush to me. Had that thing for 10 years. I don't care who used it in there rig. I didn't like it. Sold, never looking back Damn it Rob when it comes to that thing I'm proud to admit to being a hater! The only thing I hate more in audio are! 1 Alesis Graphic EQ 2 Ceap no name passive Dir boxes that are just a box Jack and wires!
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 3, 2015 10:17:14 GMT -6
I'm not a hater but I hate the 3630. I had one from the beginning when they first came out. Never thought they were pro, whatever that means. Just seemed like mush to me. Had that thing for 10 years. I don't care who used it in there rig. I didn't like it. Sold, never looking back Damn it Rob when it comes to that thing I'm proud to admit to being a hater! The only thing I hate more in audio are! 1 Alesis Graphic EQ 2 Ceap no name passive Dir boxes that are just a box Jack and wires! I think there was something technically wrong with the design on that thing, i can't remember where i read that though....
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 3, 2015 10:20:25 GMT -6
Damn it Rob when it comes to that thing I'm proud to admit to being a hater! The only thing I hate more in audio are! 1 Alesis Graphic EQ 2 Ceap no name passive Dir boxes that are just a box Jack and wires! This thing? Yeah, I have one that I pulled out of my live rig because it was noisy. Get outta here.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,953
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Post by ericn on Sept 3, 2015 10:22:33 GMT -6
Damn it Rob when it comes to that thing I'm proud to admit to being a hater! The only thing I hate more in audio are! 1 Alesis Graphic EQ 2 Ceap no name passive Dir boxes that are just a box Jack and wires! This thing? Yeah, I have one that I pulled out of my live rig because it was noisy. Get outta here. That is the worst POS ever! I Denver trading a guy 2 of those for a rack of 6 White Passives and he thought he was robbing ME!
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Post by Guitar on Sept 3, 2015 10:26:31 GMT -6
Damn it Rob when it comes to that thing I'm proud to admit to being a hater! The only thing I hate more in audio are! 1 Alesis Graphic EQ 2 Ceap no name passive Dir boxes that are just a box Jack and wires! I think there was something technically wrong with the design on that thing, i can't remember where i read that though.... I wouldn't be too surprised. Apparently they issued a brief successor called the 3632 that supposedly corrected a lot of what was wrong with the original, regarding stuff like distortion, stereo balance. I think some of the earlier 3630 were missing a certain capacitor in the timing circuit. There is also a rumour of the Behringer MDX1000 being a 3630 copy with all the corrections made. The blind leading the blind, LOL. Some of the Behringer stuff from that era also has strange technical issues inside, like using Comparators instead of Op Amps for some of the audio. Definitely in the realm of funky gear. +1 about cheap direct boxes. Nothing pisses me off more than a POS direct box. Every time I plug into one of those things I actually get angry. I'm like come on it can't be that hard! I had no idea how bad those things could be because I luckily started out with a Radial JDI Duplex and API preamps. When I started trying cheaper ones I was in for a world of pain I didn't know existed.
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 3, 2015 10:29:22 GMT -6
It happens, i think our pal Jim Williams found and reported to DBX a serious flaw with the 166, they fixed the mistake moving forward.
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Post by junior on Sept 3, 2015 11:53:55 GMT -6
There is also a rumour of the Behringer MDX1000 being a 3630 copy with all the corrections made. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the MDX1000 was a licensed and rebranded DBX 166. Could be wrong, though...
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 3, 2015 17:15:38 GMT -6
There is also a rumour of the Behringer MDX1000 being a 3630 copy with all the corrections made. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the MDX1000 was a licensed and rebranded DBX 166. Could be wrong, though... Cheap clone yes Licensed no!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 19:42:01 GMT -6
An Alesis3630 and a Behringer MDX2100 "Composer" still in the rack... Both units got a little expensive opamp upgrades. Beefed up the psu in the 3630 only a little bit (upping 2 elyt caps and using a 1.5A wallwart instead of the underdimensioned stuff that came with it) and it ran stable. Also, this unit used the comparator instead of an audio grade opamp. Changed all to OPA4227...sounds musical and just works. In the Composer stuff of these generation i heard the neat trick to change the rail voltage to +-18V instead of +-15. From what i read, this should not only result in the more headroom, but also in an other compression behavior/knee. To the better. I decided against this and changed the quad opamps to OPA404 and done. Sounds very clean and is versatile... OK,the changes costed me more than units, and esp. the behringer units have complicated cases to dis-/reassemble and it's very easy to damage PCBs.. But it was fun and each was still under ~120-150 usd in the end. Bought the boxes used. For this it was good value and some fun experiments....
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Post by Guitar on Sept 4, 2015 6:51:55 GMT -6
Martin, thanks, I definitely referenced some of your posts on GroupDIY when I was working on the MDX2100. Agreed about the cases, very easy to mess these things up, not the most fun to work on when fiddling with parts and something goes wrong.
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Post by mobeach on Sept 4, 2015 14:55:14 GMT -6
Which $200-$350 Compressor would you peeps recommend for recording?
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Post by drumrec on Sept 4, 2015 16:08:54 GMT -6
This animal I bought at an auction for not too many $$$$. I think you guys know more about it on the other side of the Atlantic. The little I know, it used on radio stations. I use it often with a mono mic and squeeze out a little bit dirty. Love it and I guess it does not cost so many dollars. www.facebook.com/DRUMREC/videos/10153529821300390/?l=4118450253724613672Very nice. Yes, these FM limiters are popular with some. I believe David Friedmann used them for The Flaming Lips drum sound on The Soft Bulletin? I'd fancy a few of those but I dread the electricity bill! Dare I ask how much it was? It was not so many dollars I paid for it, around 150$. If you have that low in the mix like dirty channel, it do something that appeals to my ears. When you mute that channel something dirty, nice vibe into the mix disappears . But very subtly, because I have it so low in the mix. But I have definitely taken it as a family member
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Post by jazznoise on Sept 8, 2015 12:17:29 GMT -6
So my RNC arrived today! Enjoyed it on vocals, though it reacts quite heavily to bass. Shame it has no SC hpf, but the external sidechain is a workaround I suppose..
Gonna do some acoustic guitar tomorrow and see if we can get some "I'm Only Sleeping" esque guitar squishing going.
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Post by wiz on Sept 8, 2015 17:01:38 GMT -6
So my RNC arrived today! Enjoyed it on vocals, though it reacts quite heavily to bass. Shame it has no SC hpf, but the external sidechain is a workaround I suppose.. Gonna do some acoustic guitar tomorrow and see if we can get some "I'm Only Sleeping" esque guitar squishing going. I owned one of these.. well I owned two, each at different times. The only real way to stop that happening to bass, is to play with the release time... its not really a very good unit for bass at all. IME. But, it is a very transparent compressor and really quite good for the price. cheers Wiz
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Post by EmRR on Sept 8, 2015 17:37:31 GMT -6
When I had RNC's, I experimented with soldering various size caps directly to a TRS connector to create a 6dB/oct hpf in the side chain, until I found one I liked and then generally left it plugged in at all times.
They'll sort recreate the Allison Gain Brain thing on OH's.
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Post by jazznoise on Sept 8, 2015 17:45:18 GMT -6
That's a great idea EMRR. Where you just taking a direct split from the input for the SC? I'd be tempted to make up a cable like that, but I was hoping to keep it neat with a single insert cable rather than having to patch it into a second channel on the mixer. Sorry wiz but I was referring just to bass content rather than bass guitar, but I'm sure it applies for both!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 8, 2015 18:05:57 GMT -6
When I had RNC's, I experimented with soldering various size caps directly to a TRS connector to create a 6dB/oct hpf in the side chain, until I found one I liked and then generally left it plugged in at all times. They'll sort recreate the Allison Gain Brain thing on OH's. Damn it now you got me thinking about a box with a rotary switch and a couple of different caps ! Like I need another Fing project !
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Post by EmRR on Sept 8, 2015 18:58:02 GMT -6
The RNC SC is a send/return, so it's really just a TRS plug with a cap across T and R.
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Post by rocinante on Sept 9, 2015 8:29:19 GMT -6
Another 3630 hater. Just an awful... device (for lack of a better term). Seeing those in the rig at clubs is always a disappointment. Although I did find it useful eventually; For a few years I used a 3630 to build studio racks with. Cause I didn't care if I put my circular saw through it. The dbx 160 is a great compressor for drums though. I felt the original 166 (and its inbred brethren the xl, xls,) to have artifacts and unnatural sounding. Yes building the gear mentioned is vastly superior to the low end stuff like the mdx and 166. As a matter of fact I sold my professionally made gear in favor of the stuff I diy'ed using the forums at groupdiy.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Sept 9, 2015 9:04:23 GMT -6
Another 3630 hater. Just an awful... device (for lack of a better term). Seeing those in the rig at clubs is always a disappointment. Although I did find it useful eventually; For a few years I used a 3630 to build studio racks with. Cause I didn't care if I put my circular saw through it. The dbx 160 is a great compressor for drums though. I felt the original 166 (and its inbred brethren the xl, xls,) to have artifacts and unnatural sounding. Yes building the gear mentioned is vastly superior to the low end stuff like the mdx and 166. As a matter of fact I sold my professionally made gear in favor of the stuff I diy'ed using the forums at groupdiy. That's what I use cheap patch bays for to funny!
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Post by jimwilliams on Sept 9, 2015 9:39:52 GMT -6
All I can afford are cheap compressors. No GML or Atomic squeeze boxes or whatever, I don't see the payback from those here.
I've had a few I dumped too, an old Urei 175, a 436 Altec, a 1591 Altec, Ashley SC-55, Gates Solid Statesman, etc. I found those too colored and dirty for my needs here. Some were souped up and sold, the Gates and Ashley come to mind. The guy that bought the Ashley loves it, a hi-fi top end and midrange grunge, perfect for 'alt. rock'.
I'm down to boxes that don't slay the audio quality: an old dbx 166 with a rebuilt power supply, opamps, side chain and VCA's, some Aphex 612's and a stack of 651 Expressors. I don't like the sound to change when I use them, so that's what's left in the rack.
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Post by Guitar on Sept 9, 2015 10:32:14 GMT -6
Another 3630 hater. Just an awful... device (for lack of a better term). Seeing those in the rig at clubs is always a disappointment. Although I did find it useful eventually; For a few years I used a 3630 to build studio racks with. Cause I didn't care if I put my circular saw through it. The dbx 160 is a great compressor for drums though. I felt the original 166 (and its inbred brethren the xl, xls,) to have artifacts and unnatural sounding. Yes building the gear mentioned is vastly superior to the low end stuff like the mdx and 166. As a matter of fact I sold my professionally made gear in favor of the stuff I diy'ed using the forums at groupdiy. Thanks that definitely reinforces my direction. I can see myself selling things too once the "good stuff" (eventually) gets built. I've already done that with my microphone collection. I've got a lot of work to do. Also that idea to solder a cap across a TRS plug for the RNC sidechain is the brilliant kind of DIY stuff I love.
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Post by jazznoise on Sept 9, 2015 10:45:41 GMT -6
I actually did a bit of acoustic guitar and electric bass tracking today. I actually really liked it on bass! Just set the attack around 6ms, release around 0.1 sec and a 8:1 ratio and it did some great grab. Only doing about 2-4dB GR on the hardest notes, but really made the bass sit from the get go. I did some runs across the register and actually, I found it was pretty even handed. The TRS plug idea is still great though!
Was a little heavier on the acoustic guitars, attack was about 2mS and the release about 0.75? Ratio was about 3:1 and I was doing about 4dB of GR. Really aggressive, managed the guitar attack well.
I didn't use "Super Nice" for either of these but I feel like Super Nice affects the time constants? It seems to act less like a peak detector and a little more RMS based when it's enabled. Even the time constants seem a little longer, like it uses a longer window for the sidechain Anyone else feel the same way?
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Post by jimwilliams on Sept 9, 2015 12:16:15 GMT -6
I had a few RNC's in the shop back when they were in vogue. It was a weird box. Tested sort of weird on the Audio Precision analyzer. Clean? About 4% THD in 'super nice mode'. It's better with that switch off at around .1%.
The gain staging was very weird, I created an AP test that shows the compression curves like you see in manuals. Once the signal passed threshold, the gain was not even. It has gain 'steps', ramp up, flatten out, ramp up, it looked like a triangle wave on a standard compressor gain vs comp curve. Needless to say, I don't own one here.
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Post by rocinante on Sept 9, 2015 12:40:19 GMT -6
Oh rnc's are... well really nice! I had two for years that I used in my live recording rig that really saved my ass. I guess I consider them 'natural sounding' compressors.
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