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Post by Ward on Aug 19, 2015 6:30:06 GMT -6
I have a WA76, STA (drip, well.. I have TWO!!! 8P ) and a Drip LA2A.... I Sometimes chain them... Mostly 76/LA2A usually it goes like this for me.. though usually everything gets a quick run.. and a LOT of the time I am passing through a box for its colour.. and apart from the STA most things only do 2-3dB GR.. STA who knows? 8) Bass LA2A Acoustic 76 Kick 76 Snare 76 and just recently DBX 161 Lead Vox .. tracking STA mix down LA500 Elec Guitars mixdown LA500 76 Backing Vox all the compressors might get a run if I am stacking OOOHS Percussion... all the boxes get a run for the tone shaping. Interesting choices... mine differ slightly. But these are certainly good ones. The only thing I would think needs adding... if you want a tight, upfront well controlled vocal, try running the signal chain through both an LA2a (or CL1b) into an 1176 to get over leveling, tone enhancement and peak management. |
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Post by wiz on Aug 19, 2015 6:45:08 GMT -6
I used to do the 1176 la2a thing.... Then I got a STA
8)
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by levon on Aug 19, 2015 6:49:26 GMT -6
I have a WA76, STA (drip, well.. I have TWO!!! 8P ) and a Drip LA2A.... I Sometimes chain them... Mostly 76/LA2A usually it goes like this for me.. though usually everything gets a quick run.. and a LOT of the time I am passing through a box for its colour.. and apart from the STA most things only do 2-3dB GR.. STA who knows? 8) Bass LA2A Acoustic 76 Kick 76 Snare 76 and just recently DBX 161 Lead Vox .. tracking STA mix down LA500 Elec Guitars mixdown LA500 76 Backing Vox all the compressors might get a run if I am stacking OOOHS Percussion... all the boxes get a run for the tone shaping. The thing for me is using HARDWARE... I mostly am using the box for its TONE first and thinking about COMPRESSION slightly behind that.. yes I am thinking about comp, but its more a holistic process of the whole picture... Say I have an acoustic guitar and I am searching for its tone.. I might try the 76,LA2A,STA, DBX,LA500 ... quickly... with the patch bay I can do that in a couple of minutes.. and A/B by just moving two patch leads, most of the time with one hand... I am also adjusting knobs on the comps with BOTH hands... I can't tell you how much BETTER the process is than dealing with plug ins... the physical nature is a far better interaction... The result is one of two things happens, inside a couple of minutes... 1. One of the boxes WINS outright, or a pair of them, and I am done and move on and I think no more about it. 2. NONE of them work and I leave it alone. Either way, I commit to the sound via revamping, and I am done... Say again, done. 8) My mix down in logic might have a couple of plugins, reverb and delay, and it might have one or two EQ plugs to clean something up.. thats generally it. My point. The boxes I have cost me really not very much.. I bought the STAs and the LA2A secondhand for not much more than a WA TEC each 8) and the WA76 is cheap, as is the LA500 and the DBX cost around the same as well. Invest in hardware if you at all think it will work for you in your situation... you (well I ) stopped buying every plug in that came out. cheers Wiz I no longer buy plugins, except for a verb I am eyeing thanks to Randge. You guys are keeping me broke. Just one more piece...and that's what I always tell myself, just one more piece...I want to stop wanting, it is a sickness... I hear you! I have a long list of all the 'Just-one-more' pieces I want... |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 19, 2015 8:02:11 GMT -6
I used to do the 1176 la2a thing.... Then I got a STA 8) Cheers Wiz THAT'S what I wanna know. Does the Sta outdo the LA-2A for vocals. The UAD LA-2A plug helps almost every vocal track I've tried, so I assume the hardware would be cool. But when I've listened to cowboycoalminer's tracks, I prefer the Sta-Level I think. His vocals sound clean and clear, not highly colored, but man, does it ever sit in the track perfectly. Please say a little more about this Wiz. |
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Post by dandeurloo on Aug 19, 2015 8:14:37 GMT -6
A couple of thoughts. 1. Your voice is pure americana. Love it. It borders on the "about to fall apart at any moment" with a compelling tone and emotive quality. +1, very classic sounding voice and style. I wish I could sing. |
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Post by dandeurloo on Aug 19, 2015 8:26:07 GMT -6
I have a number of DIY LA 2A's that sound killer and a amazing PTP Sta Level I built. They both add weight and nice compression to a track. The Sta has a lot more then the LA 2A's which makes it more of a "one trick pony", but really good at that trick. The Warm 1176 did sound nice but it seemed to be a little brighter then most 1176 then I am use to. Maybe a little more bottom roll off. Not that its not totally usable. But it would probably be more suited for things that could use that type of eq added to the track. You gotta think of compressors as EQ's as well.
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Post by robertg on Aug 19, 2015 10:55:24 GMT -6
Tracks sound great with and without but it would be a much better comparison if they were level matched. The compressed tracks are significantly louder. Again, great job though.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 19, 2015 11:05:47 GMT -6
Thanks Robertg,, and welcome to the forum. Did you check the levels in a DAW, or was it just by ear you're saying the levels weren't matched?
I did level match, only it was done at the end in Final Cut pro, so I can't swear they were perfectly matched, but we did our best to level match every track.. The perceived loudness difference might be the result of different frequencies being highlighted by compression. You can have more apparent bass on a track, and it can still be level matched, even if it sounds louder.
When dandeurloo said, " You gotta think of compressors as EQ's as well", he makes an important point. The EQ of a track can change significantly with compression, of any brand or type. In the video, the first acoustic guitar is very clean, the second with the WA76 is boomier. It was only in the final mix I decided which worked better for the vibe of the whole track.
Overall, the WA76 tracks worked better. Would I like to have others to choose from, like an LA2, or a Sta, or maybe Dizengoff's new compressor, sure, but the WA76 sure does what a 1176 Rev D is supposed to do.
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 19, 2015 13:25:31 GMT -6
Tracks sound great with and without but it would be a much better comparison if they were level matched. The compressed tracks are significantly louder. Again, great job though. welcome robertg, i'm sure you know this, but whenever u compress, the average level comes up if you use makeup gain, this will give the overall effect of being louder....ehh, which it is lol, which is what I'd think you'd want in this case, density and volume, i'd just match peak levels to show the effect of the compression(i believe this is what MJB did?), it's a very good display of the WA's character imo, the performance and mix are pretty dang good Mr Martin 8) |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 19, 2015 14:48:47 GMT -6
Thanks Tony, that's exactly what I did and was was referring to. The difference between the tracks IS the point robertg :-)
What's cool about having the Apollo and the WA76 is I can record two tracks at the same time, one with, one without the WA76. I an choose either one later, or even blend the two, if it's a sound I like. There would be minor latency, but that might be interesting, you never know til you try.
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Post by wiz on Aug 19, 2015 15:32:17 GMT -6
I used to do the 1176 la2a thing.... Then I got a STA 8) Cheers Wiz THAT'S what I wanna know. Does the Sta outdo the LA-2A for vocals. The UAD LA-2A plug helps almost every vocal track I've tried, so I assume the hardware would be cool. But when I've listened to cowboycoalminer's tracks, I prefer the Sta-Level I think. His vocals sound clean and clear, not highly colored, but man, does it ever sit in the track perfectly. Please say a little more about this Wiz. I guess its best to keep in mind my LA2A and STA's are Drip versions.. not UA and GATES or RETRO. That being said, they are all 3 of them made absolutely beautifully and with top shelf components. The LA2A also has three different attack and release speeds which does improve its versatility no end. That being said. The STA is to a singer (Well me) what the KM84 is to the mic world. I dont gush much, but I will gush about 4 things.. KM84, 1073, U87 (mine) and the STA level. When you sing through a STA level.. you get supported by it... you kind of ride along on it.. I have never experienced anything like it before.. singing though other compressors is a bit of a crap shoot.. you sometimes feel it pulling at your voice or you get a bit gun shy that you are going to ping it... Not so the STA level.. Imagine a small child being frightened at the zoo and his wonderful big daddy picks him up and puts him on his shoulders.. and says "its ok son, I got you" Thats the STA Other compressors smack you over the head and say "shut up, suck it up and stop your crying"... 8) Martin, go demo a STA... do it in Nash.. cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on Aug 19, 2015 15:36:04 GMT -6
Tracks sound great with and without but it would be a much better comparison if they were level matched. The compressed tracks are significantly louder. Again, great job though. 8) If only we had some sort of device that when we as audio engineers listened to something adjusted the volume level.... 8) just kidding.... welcome to the forum robertgMaking these things is hard, and hugely time consuming. You have two choices with demoing things that change the perceived volume... peak level... or make it as loud as you think it should be to match the original file... which is right...? I see points in both.... More important, that someone took the time and effort to present it. I reckon cheers Wiz |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 19, 2015 15:51:00 GMT -6
Thanks wiz. There are lots of decisions made along the way to pull this kind of demo off, despite it being home brewed. I decided to level match, and leave the volume where it was to properly show what the 76 was doing. In some instances, if it was my own track, and not for the demo, I might have dialed it back a little, but figured people would appreciate hearing obvious differences.
That said, I thought some of the tracks were very close, and some very different. My personal favorite was the 12 string, it just sprang to life with the WA76. Man, would I ever use that thing a lot if I only owned that Gretsch 12 string. It was a loaner. It's the $2,800 Country Gentleman that George Harrison favored. It was a thing of rare beauty.
Thanks for the Sta info too.
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Post by Ward on Aug 21, 2015 7:09:53 GMT -6
The STA is to a singer (Well me) what the KM84 is to the mic world. I dont gush much, but I will gush about 4 things.. KM84, 1073, U87 (mine) and the STA level. When you sing through a STA level.. you get supported by it... you kind of ride along on it.. I have never experienced anything like it before.. singing though other compressors is a bit of a crap shoot.. you sometimes feel it pulling at your voice or you get a bit gun shy that you are going to ping it... Not so the STA level.. Imagine a small child being frightened at the zoo and his wonderful big daddy picks him up and puts him on his shoulders.. and says "its ok son, I got you" Thats the STA Other compressors smack you over the head and say "shut up, suck it up and stop your crying"... 8) Martin, go demo a STA... do it in Nash.. cheers Wiz GREAT... just when I gotten over my STA LVEL GAS!!! |
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Post by 2020digging on Sept 6, 2015 5:59:17 GMT -6
Thanks Tony, that's exactly what I did and was was referring to. The difference between the tracks IS the point robertg :-) What's cool about having the Apollo and the WA76 is I can record two tracks at the same time, one with, one without the WA76. I an choose either one later, or even blend the two, if it's a sound I like. There would be minor latency, but that might be interesting, you never know til you try. I'm curious. Do you need a preamp into an audio interface? Say for example the Dizengoff D4 into a Warm WA76 into your Apollo into your DAW. Is this overkill or is this a way of getting a sound and a level that sits better in the final mix? I've been researching this environment and am still confused as to what the real benefits are. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 6, 2015 6:59:44 GMT -6
Hey 2020, welcome to the forum!
That is always at the discretion of the engineer or producer, or the singer/songwriter/band/engineer/producer/mixer/mastering guy, ( uhh.. me ;-)
As useful and decent as the Apollo pres are, especially if you need 4 or 8 pres to mic something like a drum kit, I've always chosen a preamp. I use the Warm Audio Tone Beast or the Dizengoff D4. It just sounds better that way.
So ar my signal chain has been pre>compressor>DAW, but I just got the Warm Audio EQP-1A yesterday, and will experiment with EQ after the compressor next time I'm tracking.
I'm wishing Bryce from Warm Audio would come out with a "WA-Level", or a "WA-2A", since I can't afford a STA. That would be icing on a cake that already tastes really good.
I like hardware to track, DAWS for endless options, automation and editing. One day, I'd love to have TWO Sta's, Two, EQP-1A's for final mixes, but tracking with some outboard works nicely for now.
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Post by 2020digging on Sept 6, 2015 7:35:29 GMT -6
So ar my signal chain has been pre>compressor>DAW, but I just got the Warm Audio EQP-1A yesterday, and will experiment with EQ after the compressor next time I'm tracking. So, with your signal chain you place the Apollo in between the compressor and the DAW? e.g. pre>compressor>Apollo (or audio interface - bypassing the internal pres?) DAW? I have been looking at the Chandler TG2-500 as a pre that would add variety to my Apogee Quartet. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 6, 2015 9:18:26 GMT -6
With the Apollo, if you use a preamp, you can bypass the Apollo preamps. So the Apollo is your A-D. D-A converter, as well as your storage for UAD plug-ins. With the Apollo, you can choose to hear, but not print, or print with plug-ins.
When I mentioned recording simultaneously with the WA76 and without, that would be by using the Apollo pres, and from the Apollo's console, running the out with WA76 to one channel in my DAW, and the output without the compressor to another input in my DAW..
When I want to compare the Apollo pres to other pres, I have to record each track separately.
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