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Post by timmyboy on Sept 17, 2013 4:03:58 GMT -6
I was watching a video where Neal Avron was explaining his thoughts on drum recording. I noticed that there was no bottom heads on the Toms or kick, on the kit in his studio. I had totally forgotten that people record drums this way and have never tried it! I will soon - but does anyone here do it this way? What's the advantage? I would imagine its easier to tune, and that the bottom heads aren't as important if you aren't trying to 'amplify' the sound of the kit to a live audience
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Post by Ward on Sept 17, 2013 6:48:59 GMT -6
well... I've never thought of this practice as having "advantages" and pretty much thought it had all but died. I always chalked it up to laziness: Too lazy to known how to properly tune and balance both heads. But if you need toms to NOT resonate and die out quickly after being hit, have less life and tone, then I suppose it's the way to go.
Just like there's an art to tuning a stringed acoustic instrument so that it sounds perfectly in tune on every chord, there's an art to tuning both top and bottom heads on toms.
I don't even like the "no front head" approach to kick drums. A kick with a 9" hole in the front (centered, preferably) works best for me. You get the resonance but are able to get in close to the beater impact point of the front head for more attack on the inside mic.
But to each their own. Results are all that really matter.
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 17, 2013 9:55:30 GMT -6
Of course this is all subjective... drums should be looked at as a single instrument, They should be tuned to their sweet spot as drums/set, some guys tune for feel, some for pitch, those of us who are lucky enough to have put together a drumset that is "pitch" tunable, and still maintains feel, have it made. As soon as you start thinking about one drum at a time, you start loosing the battle if your looking for a "natural" drum sound, but if your going for effect, have at it? Taking the bottom head off a drum is similar to taking the back panel off an acoustic guitar, sure it'll still function, maybe it can be used for effect, but generally speaking, it will sound bad.
Put a thinner head on the reso(bottom), than the batter(top), and don't be afraid of longer decays, these will generally disappear in the context of music/mix, while at the same time adding dimension and depth to a drum sound. This so called ringing, is often targeted by the "get rid of that ringing" guys, and mistakenly muffled to the demise of a good drum sound. When is the last time someone said, "hey, that acoustic guitar has to much sustain and decay, tape a towel to that thing!" lol!
Tuning drums isn't easy, the ability isn't anointed, it's hard work, but it is worthwhile to get into, if you take an hour a night for a month, and experiment around, i promise you, you will get a better understanding of whats going on with it.
There are a ton of online pages dealing with drum tuning, a "drum dial", "tunebot" are excellent tools that can give you visual cues to get you closer quicker, but ultimately, it's all ears.
good luck
T
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Post by svart on Sept 17, 2013 11:01:03 GMT -6
When I started out playing drums in the late 80's early 90's, I couldn't afford new heads, let alone bottom heads. I always played without bottom heads. It was fine for playing because the drums were very loud, but as time went on and I learned what drums *should* sound like and when I started recording and found that not using bottom heads sounded awful, I started using bottom heads.
I find that it's not hard to tune bottom heads on toms. It's a whole lot harder on shallow drums like snares or the odd shallow tom.
It's my opinion that a kick should always have a front head if you want a decent sound though.
I've also found that it's a misconception that a bottom/front head tuned higher than the batter will cause the drum to sound too high in pitch. I've found that it can be tuned higher and still make the fundamental tone of the drum sound lower, which is something that a lot of drummers I record have a problem believing until I tune their drums for them.
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Post by wreck on Sept 17, 2013 11:21:13 GMT -6
If there were no such thing as bottom heads, I'd never get a sound I liked out of drums. Both heads get tuned on every drum in every session for me. That makes everything that follows much easier.
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 17, 2013 11:27:55 GMT -6
just to add some info to svarts accurate post, the pitch of a drum is determined by its diameter, not it's depth.
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Post by svart on Sept 17, 2013 12:12:38 GMT -6
It's strange that in this day and age of youtube and the like, I still run into lots of drummers who can't tune their drums. I recorded a guy the other day who has played almost as long as I have but didn't realize nor care that 3 of the tuning lugs on his snare were loose enough to rattle..
Needless to say, I found all of the heads on his set completely whacked. It was easier to just remove all the heads and start again.
I do a mixture of techniques that I found to work best for me while doing the rough tuning and I now finish off with a Tunebot, which can be a pain to use, but can also yield pretty awesome results for final tuning.
I'll start on the batter with the resonant head either completely off the drum or very loose but muffled by sitting the drum on my knees or on shag carpet.
I do the "just past wrinkle" tune to start. this is where you place the head/rim/tension rods on the drum and tighten by finger until all of the tension rods are just finger tight. Push down on the middle of the head until you see lots of wrinkles on the head around the edge. Now tighten the hoop in a star pattern until the wrinkles are all gone. This should be close to the lowest pitch the drum can hit without sounding too flabby.
Second, I'll do a "pitch bend" tune. What I'll do is strike the head and quickly loosen a lug and tighten it back up and listen to the pitch bend and end pitch that it hits. I'll do this around the drum until they all sound very similar. this is probably the hardest part of the tuning as it requires an ear for pitch changes, but not necessarily perfect pitch. This gets all the lugs and points on the head to the same relative note so that the head "sings".
Third, I'll use the tunebot to hit a specific note if I feel like it needs to be tuned that way.
I'll then switch to the resonant head and do mostly the same thing but I'll then hunt for the sympathetic note of the top head. I'll do this by doing the pitch bend tune around the point where the notes are similar +/- a fifth. I'll then move the bottom head up and down in pitch until it sings with the top head.
Singing heads. It's hard to explain but you'll definitely know it when you hear it.
From there, you can moongel or tape the heads as you like, but it's ALWAYS best to tune the drum and dampen in down to get that fat attack rather than try to tune it too low. If you tune it too low you'll get a pitch bend as the stick hits the drum, and the drum won't stay in tune very well.
Also, a lot of places will suggest that you change heads on every song or every couple of songs for recording. I don't think this is necessary for toms and kick. I think they sweeten a bit with some use. The snare head probably should be changed at least once a day in recording, but it depends on the amount of clean ring you want from it.
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Post by Ward on Sept 17, 2013 20:13:49 GMT -6
1. Taking the bottom head off a drum is similar to taking the back panel off an acoustic guitar, sure it'll still function, maybe it can be used for effect, but generally speaking, it will sound bad. 2. When is the last time someone said, "hey, that acoustic guitar has to much sustain and decay, tape a towel to that thing!" lol! Very well said, Tony! |
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