|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 5, 2015 12:11:29 GMT -6
84's and ribbons all day long! Close micing stringed instruments=yuck! and is a natural image killer imo, especially with an emotional player that moves around. Also if you have to gain the crap out of mic pre's? either the instrument sucks(in which case it matters not what you do), or it's located in the wrong place in the room, the bodies of these instruments do their best in excited environments like an orchestra where every instrument bleeds into and is excited by the one next to it, it's not a bad thing, it's a great thing! If you don't have an orchestra, move around the room until you fall upon an area where the cello POPS!, actual close reflections from a nearby hard surfaces are you friend, it isn't a mistake that there are hard panels for separation next to/between these players(nothing in front), this session won a grammy for engineering, the only thing i can tell you with absolute certainty... is watch out for the dreaded 8' ceilings!
this is actually very close mic'd in this world, i believe this is James Taylor barn studio?
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Aug 5, 2015 12:30:24 GMT -6
Thx Tony real world videos are good to see!
|
|
|
Post by svart on Aug 5, 2015 13:57:46 GMT -6
I dunno, I recorded a 20K$ violin that was about half the volume level of a 200$ violin I also recorded with the same setup. The volume was lower and the tone much, much sweeter on that expensive thing.
Groups of instruments in the orchestra weren't originally for mixing of harmonics, they were because you needed more instruments to be loud enough for people in the back of the auditorium to hear them. Multiplying the number of instruments multiplies the loudness! Most of these types of situations arose from necessity only..
And just like the video, reasonably close mics are great to capture nuances from these instruments.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Aug 5, 2015 14:27:42 GMT -6
if you're in a decent to better room, try your pair of ribbons in blumlein a little above and about 4-6 feet away. Then if you need more definition, my 1st call on cello would be a vintage U87. If that's too uncontrolled (the 87 often can be depending on the room), a KM84 is the way to go as it allows you to get that articulation, but dial back the room with distance placement. Stereo image from the ribbons, articulation from ghosting in the condenser. Watch for phase issues. IMO, as much as I love them, the MK47 or C12 is not the right mic for this but you may be after something different than I usually am. You have plenty of good advice from all on this thread.
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Aug 5, 2015 14:33:06 GMT -6
Yes great advice thx!
I think I will set up 4 mikes: 1 ribbon, 1 sdc my c 12th and 47 and record some samples and have Raphael listen critically and go with his preference.
|
|
|
Post by odyssey76 on Aug 5, 2015 14:51:16 GMT -6
Matt - I don't have any advice unfortunately because I've never tracked a cello but just want to say a few things - first off, what a great opportunity and good for you having the guts to get this guy playing on your music! I think this tune will benefit greatly from this track and the experience gained is monumental.
Second - remember the 2 most important things are the musician and the performance. You'll have these 2 things covered in spades. Make sure he has good headphone monitoring. Guys like this can do a good job hiding minor tracking imperfections with the way they control their playing.
Maybe you can get a live audio feed from the session and we can listen and be huge pain in the asses by telling you to move the mic a quarter of an inch at a time! Kidding of course but I can't wait to hear this! Good luck!
|
|
|
Post by jazznoise on Aug 5, 2015 17:33:33 GMT -6
And just like the video, reasonably close mics are great to capture nuances from these instruments. It's hilarious that people follow dichotomies of close mic'ing acoustic guitars, brass and amplifiers but simultaneously fear doing the same on the orchestral string family. If you want a really dry, forward sound that's just what you have to do. For one very funky project I even had a violinist playing with a harmonic mic next to him, we ran it into a Memory Boy into a Vox in a big reverberant room. Sounded very cool, definitely not what Decca would usually recommend.
|
|
|
Post by Randge on Aug 5, 2015 20:59:26 GMT -6
Then you have crazy guys like fiddler63, who sets up a fiddle with octave strings on it and gets into cello land without the huge bottom end tackling so much of the bottom end of the mix. It sounds amazing!
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Oct 17, 2015 7:17:22 GMT -6
Morning guys, I did the cello tracking some time ago and it went surprisingly well; thank you for all your advice. But I found it became too much of a good thing; too much cello, so I have tried to mix it largely as counterpoint to the vox and acoustic guitar parts. So, here is a current working mix. soundcloud.com/kcatthedog/my-love-10-17-2105I will still have a drummer round to do real hand percussion. Now that I have my 2 dizengoff d4's, I feel like re recording the acoustic guitar part as I think the recording could be clearer; thoughts ? thx !
|
|
|
Post by jimwilliams on Oct 17, 2015 10:06:01 GMT -6
When I recorded "Blue Chopsticks, a portrait of Herbie Nichols" by the Buell Neidlinger Quintet I used one of my modified AGK 414 B-ULS mics. It fed a High Speed mic preamp to conversion. It was mixed flat, no EQ nor compression. I did add some 224XL hall but that was it. Buell said it was the best recording of his $50,000 cello he ever heard.
K2B2 Records # K2B2 3169
|
|
|
Post by sll on Oct 17, 2015 18:45:54 GMT -6
I recorded Yo Yo Ma with a flanking pair of Shoeps MK2 omnis flown above stage with an ORTF configured Shoeps MK4 cardiod pair in center. I had some sort of LDC for a spot mic, but it wasn't needed. Verb supplied naturally by the Ordway hall in St. Paul MN by blending in the flanking omnis to taste.
The next day Yo Yo Ma left his Strad cello in a NYC cab (probably worth a million or more?).
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 18, 2015 9:09:58 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 18, 2015 9:11:44 GMT -6
I'm recording some cello today...gonna try the Samar VL37 a couple of feet back...
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Oct 18, 2015 9:44:37 GMT -6
Morning guys, I did the cello tracking some time ago and it went surprisingly well; thank you for all your advice. But I found it became too much of a good thing; too much cello, so I have tried to mix it largely as counterpoint to the vox and acoustic guitar parts. So, here is a current working mix. soundcloud.com/kcatthedog/my-love-10-17-2105I will still have a drummer round to do real hand percussion. Now that I have my 2 dizengoff d4's, I feel like re recording the acoustic guitar part as I think the recording could be clearer; thoughts ? thx ! good job Matt, sounds like you put a lot of effort into this!
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2015 10:24:25 GMT -6
Thx Tony, a little bit of by luck and by golly, but I just listened carefully as he warmed up, faced his cello back into my dead end and below my other cloud and once we had good tone and signal levels left that alone and made certain no overages and like you suggested I used no compression going in but multiple takes. A great cellist is like a great vocalist, a pleasure to hear their technique first hand; oh shit is the record button on good luck john a couple of feet back and aimed a little above the bridge and a little off centre worked for me.
|
|
|
Post by sll on Oct 18, 2015 10:52:43 GMT -6
I'm recording some cello today...gonna try the Samar VL37 a couple of feet back... Give us a sound clip if you can.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 18, 2015 11:02:55 GMT -6
will do
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 18, 2015 11:29:23 GMT -6
84s, 86s and Schoeps all the way for me. I played with RCA 77s and my B&O stereo mike for a while but went back to the Neumann and Schoeps.
|
|