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Post by swurveman on Jun 24, 2015 8:23:56 GMT -6
I'm curious to know what people who are using sample based drums to make song demo's are using for ambient snares? Are you buying ambient snare samples? Or, are you tweaking your overheads/room mics from SD2 or Addictive Drums to get the snare ambiance you want?
Honestly, I think it makes sense for rock and country-which often uses the entire kit in the drum performance- to tweak OH and room mics to get a good ambient snare sound, but for the tighter drum sound of pop-where the kick/snare is often all that's used from kit sounds- it seems to make more sense to use ambient snares. It also makes sense to me-regardless of the genre- to consider the productive ease of using ambient snares when you're writing a lot of songs and producing a lot of song demo's.
And that being said, does anybody know of a great ambient snare sample pack?
Thanks to anybody who responds with your thoughts/advice!
Frank
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Post by jazznoise on Jun 24, 2015 8:45:03 GMT -6
I'd never heard the phrase ambient snare before, but now I feel like I've heard it too many times.
If the close mic is all you can use if you need to keep the kit balance, or they were actually set up as cymbal mics, then very short reverbs are the way to go. If it's just a balance issue triggering an expander on the room mics or overheads and using the snare as a sidechain works too.
For demos samples are fine unless the snare sound is in some way intrinsic to the composition.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 24, 2015 10:45:58 GMT -6
I'd never heard the phrase ambient snare before, but now I feel like I've heard it too many times. If the close mic is all you can use if you need to keep the kit balance, or they were actually set up as cymbal mics, then very short reverbs are the way to go. If it's just a balance issue triggering an expander on the room mics or overheads and using the snare as a sidechain works too. For demos samples are fine unless the snare sound is in some way intrinsic to the composition. I heard the term in this interview with Robert Orton who mixed "Just Dance". He received the recorded tracks and samples from RedOne. Since apparently RedOne does everything in Logic, he either (a) bounced a dry sampled kick and snare with a reverb send, or bounced them from a combination of close snare/room(s)/oh's/ room mics/reverb send from something like SD2, or (b) bought a kick and snare that were already recorded and bounced and sold as "ambient" and inserted them on the grid. Either way, I believe the original kick and snare was a sample that was sent to Orton. |
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Post by donr on Jun 24, 2015 11:29:37 GMT -6
Not sure what you're after, Frank. How hard is it to put ambience on any snare sample? I typically dedicate a 'verb to the close snare mic in any mix, to create the composite snare sound. Usually has a short decay, a quarternote of the song tempo.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 24, 2015 12:09:31 GMT -6
Not sure what you're after, Frank. How hard is it to put ambience on any snare sample? I typically dedicate a 'verb to the close snare mic in any mix, to create the composite snare sound. Usually has a short decay, a quarternote of the song tempo. Thanks for your reply Don. I am interested in the term as it's used by Orton. Perhaps it is just a send from the close snare mic to a reverb/delay that was bounced and sent to Orton. Since this is a genre that I'm not fully aware of the nomenclature I thought I'd ask and see if anybody here has experience in what the term means. The snare sounds like a snare with a HPF that's played in a mid to large dark space. So, you get a bright attack and a dark decay. Whether that space is a verb or a real room is not clear. I always think of "ambiance" as a real space, but it could be interchangeable with a verb in this case. |
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Post by yotonic on Jun 24, 2015 15:25:54 GMT -6
Pop is Cheiron. Try this one, it's in a long lineage of hits. I think this is what you mean by ambient in "pop-speak". The opposite of a tight cracking snare like Harvey Mason on George Benson's "Breezin". Layer this sample with a clap and you basically have the snare from "Lets Dance". Check out the snare on Patrice Rushen's "Forget Me Nots" if you want to hear another ambient snare that's more 70s/80s. snare_cheiron_1.mp3 (67.41 KB) www.whosampled.com/sample/382/George-Michael-Fastlove-Patrice-Rushen-Forget-Me-Nots/ |
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Post by donr on Jun 24, 2015 17:28:36 GMT -6
Not sure what you're after, Frank. How hard is it to put ambience on any snare sample? I typically dedicate a 'verb to the close snare mic in any mix, to create the composite snare sound. Usually has a short decay, a quarternote of the song tempo. Thanks for your reply Don. I am interested in the term as it's used by Orton. Perhaps it is just a send from the close snare mic to a reverb/delay that was bounced and sent to Orton. Since this is a genre that I'm not fully aware of the nomenclature I thought I'd ask and see if anybody here has experience in what the term means. The snare sounds like a snare with a HPF that's played in a mid to large dark space. So, you get a bright attack and a dark decay. Whether that space is a verb or a real room is not clear. I always think of "ambiance" as a real space, but it could be interchangeable with a verb in this case. I guess my point was, no matter what the snare ambience sounds like, it's still almost always tied to the song tempo, so the ambient tail grooves with the tempo, rather than fighting it. So the way to use an ambient backbeat snare would be either write to a known fixed tempo sample, or generate the ambience once the song tempo has been decided. It's a conventional wisdom rarely contradicted, because it works so well and reliably. |
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Post by swurveman on Jun 24, 2015 17:52:52 GMT -6
Thanks for your reply Don. I am interested in the term as it's used by Orton. Perhaps it is just a send from the close snare mic to a reverb/delay that was bounced and sent to Orton. Since this is a genre that I'm not fully aware of the nomenclature I thought I'd ask and see if anybody here has experience in what the term means. The snare sounds like a snare with a HPF that's played in a mid to large dark space. So, you get a bright attack and a dark decay. Whether that space is a verb or a real room is not clear. I always think of "ambiance" as a real space, but it could be interchangeable with a verb in this case. I guess my point was, no matter what the snare ambience sounds like, it's still almost always tied to the song tempo, so the ambient tail grooves with the tempo, rather than fighting it. So the way to use an ambient backbeat snare would be either write to a known fixed tempo sample, or generate the ambience once the song tempo has been decided. It's a conventional wisdom rarely contradicted, because it works so well and reliably. Thanks. I appreciate your thoughts! |
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Post by jazznoise on Jun 24, 2015 18:18:29 GMT -6
I've honestly just always set the reverb to what I wanted and never worried about the decay time vs. tempo relation. I figured most of it was our ear implying that it shifted to the rhythm, then it actually doing so. Many famous room reverb sounds obviously can't shift too much in relation to tempo without serious varispeeding.
Is it worth my while trying?
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Post by donr on Jun 24, 2015 18:37:48 GMT -6
I've honestly just always set the reverb to what I wanted and never worried about the decay time vs. tempo relation. I figured most of it was our ear implying that it shifted to the rhythm, then it actually doing so. Many famous room reverb sounds obviously can't shift too much in relation to tempo without serious varispeeding. Is it worth my while trying? Your ear is king. In the plug-in era, lots of delay or 'verb plugs will sync with partials of your song tempo if available. Listen, it might work for you or not. I have historically chosen intervals not quite on the note grids. But I am ALWAYS looking for an ambience decay which grooves with the song I'm working on. Wherever it falls. |
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Post by rickcarson on Jul 4, 2015 18:00:25 GMT -6
Pop is Cheiron. Try this one, it's in a long lineage of hits. I think this is what you mean by ambient in "pop-speak". The opposite of a tight cracking snare like Harvey Mason on George Benson's "Breezin". Layer this sample with a clap and you basically have the snare from "Lets Dance". Check out the snare on Patrice Rushen's "Forget Me Nots" if you want to hear another ambient snare that's more 70s/80s. www.whosampled.com/sample/382/George-Michael-Fastlove-Patrice-Rushen-Forget-Me-Nots/Great Sample I really appreciate it. |
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