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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 13, 2015 8:21:00 GMT -6
I'm satisfied with a mix, I run a "bounce", I play it back on iTunes, and it sounds different.. When listening to a song from my DAW, (Logic X), I'm hearing all the tracks blended into 2 channels, correct? Why then, when I make a copy, which is supposed to be the exact same thing, because the original was digital, does it sound different?
It's almost always a little duller and less three dimensional.
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 13, 2015 8:53:21 GMT -6
MP3 bounce? Must be diffrent by nature!
WAV or AIFF do sound diffrent with diffrent players, an I tunes has settings, stereo widening and EQ, switch them of.
I always use Quick Time Player for checking the bounce.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 13, 2015 9:17:39 GMT -6
Hey mrholmes, good to hear from you. I'm referring to WAV files sounding different. I think I have all my settings "off" on iTunes. I'll try quick time player next. I thought quick time was just for video..
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 13, 2015 9:41:57 GMT -6
Holmes nailed it !
Your not doing a 1=1 digital bounce your using a Codec to convert it to a different compressed digital format and as a wise man once told me Data compressin and Error correction are contradictions in the digital world.
It's going to sound different because it is in fact different.
Go to the GC clearance section and by the uhber cheap version of the Sonnox Codec it helps and you should also do a pass or 2 monitoring your mix via it to tweeke it to format!
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Post by ragan on Jun 13, 2015 9:54:08 GMT -6
Why is it different if you're bouncing to WAV?
First thing I'd do, Martin, is reimport the iTunes version and do a null test. Make sure you're not fooling yourself. I had long since thought playbacks outside the DAW sounded different. Null test proved me wrong.
Or it'll prove you right!
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Post by scumbum on Jun 13, 2015 10:17:04 GMT -6
I learned this from Bob ohlsson , but not sure if this is your problem . What sample rate you bouncing down to ?
If your session is 24bit and your bouncing to a stereo 24bit WAV , you gotta use a 24bit dither or the mix will sound like how you describe .
Sony Oxford Dynamics has 24bit dither built in , so you can just put it on the master fader when bouncing down to a stereo mix . I had that problem and using a 24bit dither fixed it .
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Post by ragan on Jun 13, 2015 10:18:16 GMT -6
Oh, are you sample rate and bit depth converting? Could just be that.
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 13, 2015 10:38:21 GMT -6
I learned this from Bob ohlsson , but not sure if this is your problem . What sample rate you bouncing down to ? If your session is 24bit and your bouncing to a stereo 24bit WAV , you gotta use a 24bit dither or the mix will sound like how you describe . Sony Oxford Dynamics has 24bit dither built in , so you can just put it on the master fader when bouncing down to a stereo mix . I had that problem and using a 24bit dither fixed it .  Most converters do not reach 24 bit - taught me Bob Katz. I would say make sure that you do not fool yourself by level difrences. If I bounce to WAV 24 BIT and I paly it back in quick-time at the same SPL all is fine. |
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Post by popmann on Jun 13, 2015 10:38:38 GMT -6
And your iTunes Soundcheck status? You DO like to limit your two buss, despite me telling you not to....Soundcheck will show you what that actually sounds like--Logic will just make it louder.
It's amazing what even a .5-1db source side gain change can change the perception without even noticing the slight difference in volume.
And so that I"m clear--Soundcheck should ALWAYS be enabled. You can turn it off for troubleshooting this "why does it sound different"....but, don't mistake it for making your stuff sound worse--it's simply showing you what it sounds like without loudness as a factor--which in the end is how EVERYONE hears it--whether they properly gain stage at the source (most don't unless Soundcheck does it for them), or whether the incorrectly use their output volume attenuation to do it--it always gets done.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 13, 2015 11:59:30 GMT -6
iTunes sample rate converts everything to whatever it's set to in the preferences. The need for d*ther is created by most digital signal processing. It's stupid that we need to think about it but the best and the brightest at DSP didn't wind up designing most of our software.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 13, 2015 12:07:30 GMT -6
Lots of possible causes.
Itunes is a Quicktime derivative, and as Bob implies if your master sampling rate is set differently than the rate of the file in iTunes or Quicktime, it is invisibly converted on playback without altering the file itself.
Deeper; build a video in iMovie with layered audio having multiple sample rates. It'll playback fine. Export it as a finished file, audio will be out of sync. It plays fine due to background conversion, but does not (at least the last time I ran into this) convert on export.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 13, 2015 12:18:48 GMT -6
Thanks guys, I'll look into all these great suggestions in a few hours, my brain's fried right now from doing a vocal comp and guitar track session with a student completely on headphones for the last few hours.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 13, 2015 12:26:08 GMT -6
Holmes nailed it ! Your not doing a 1=1 digital bounce your using a Codec to convert it to a different compressed digital format and as a wise man once told me Data compressin and Error correction are contradictions in the digital world. It's going to sound different because it is in fact different. Go to the GC clearance section and by the uhber cheap version of the Sonnox Codec it helps and you should also do a pass or 2 monitoring your mix via it to tweeke it to format! The Sonnox codec was $435 at GC. Not exactly what I'd called uhber cheap. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 13, 2015 12:42:09 GMT -6
popmann, I didn't have soundcheck on, I'll keep it on now, thanks.
I don't see where to check on the iTunes sample rate in preferences.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 13, 2015 12:50:45 GMT -6
Holmes nailed it ! Your not doing a 1=1 digital bounce your using a Codec to convert it to a different compressed digital format and as a wise man once told me Data compressin and Error correction are contradictions in the digital world. It's going to sound different because it is in fact different. Go to the GC clearance section and by the uhber cheap version of the Sonnox Codec it helps and you should also do a pass or 2 monitoring your mix via it to tweeke it to format! The Sonnox codec was $435 at GC. Not exactly what I'd called uhber cheap. There was a limited version in the Clearance last week ! It's not the full version |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 13, 2015 13:06:40 GMT -6
What the hell does it do, Eric and why would we choose it over others?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 13, 2015 15:43:04 GMT -6
The Sonnox is just the best sounding codec bar none !
I always find most of these were designed by guys more concerned about efficient or simply from a programmer's point of view these were designed to sound the best they can!
I haven't used the light one yet but I bought it !
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 13, 2015 16:09:32 GMT -6
Hi Eric, when you say "codec", are you saying it's an altogether different codec from a WAV file or AIFF? Eventually it would have to be changed to a compatible format codec for distribution, no?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 13, 2015 16:59:20 GMT -6
Hi Eric, when you say "codec", are you saying it's an altogether different codec from a WAV file or AIFF? Eventually it would have to be changed to a compatible format codec for distribution, no? It is the distribution Codec at least the $495 version! The guy who turned me on to this was an old client who records choral and chamber music , he wouldn't do anything below 44/16 till he found these I didn't believe it was worth &495 for a codec then I heard his stuff and yeah it's the best I have heard ! A couple of mastering guys I respect Swear buy it! The toolbox is designed so you can monitor your session on the fly hearing what it would sound like! I know a guy who records Books on iTunes and it lives on his template ! |
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Post by drbill on Jun 13, 2015 17:52:27 GMT -6
Why check in iTunes? Just import it back into your session so you can do an accurate A/B and see if it sounds different.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 15, 2015 21:34:23 GMT -6
Will try that Dr, Bill, thanks. I used it on iTunes though, because that's what most people listen on, I think.
Eric, I think I heard this at AES in 2013, and it was impressive, just too expensive for me.
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