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Post by mobeach on Jun 11, 2015 20:08:44 GMT -6
I'm curious, I just got into the Worship band at church and they use in ear systems with individual mixers on the mic stands and I thought the sound was horrible, no dynamics at all, just dry, flat sound.. Out front it sounds great, A&H GLD112 is the console, but what can be done to increase the quality of the monitor mix? I miss floor wedges already.. This was my first time using in ear and I didn't care for it at all.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jun 11, 2015 20:18:41 GMT -6
I'm curious, I just got into the Worship band at church and they use in ear systems with individual mixers on the mic stands and I thought the sound was horrible, no dynamics at all, just dry, flat sound.. Out front it sounds great, A&H GLD112 is the console, but what can be done to increase the quality of the monitor mix? I miss floor wedges already.. This was my first time using in ear and I didn't care for it at all. Which in ear system? Most modern ones have a lot of onboard DSP! Start by dialing everything back and build mixes one by one with artists. I have always found the custom warm olds are worth their weight in gold. Jesse you have done enough wedge mixes to know this but the hard part is remembering you have to get an understanding of what the artist is saying they want! 1st rule of all monitor mixes " give me more..." Really mean turn down everything but ... |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 11, 2015 20:20:30 GMT -6
I'm curious, I just got into the Worship band at church and they use in ear systems with individual mixers on the mic stands and I thought the sound was horrible, no dynamics at all, just dry, flat sound.. Out front it sounds great, A&H GLD112 is the console, but what can be done to increase the quality of the monitor mix? I miss floor wedges already.. This was my first time using in ear and I didn't care for it at all. I love my in ears when playing live. I use Sennheiser IE6 phones and have no complaints at all. Could always hear everything I wanted and never had to struggle with volume and feedback from a wedge. Best investment my cover band made. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jun 11, 2015 20:24:11 GMT -6
Oh I find Graphic EQ sounds like ass with IEM way to much comb filtering that hits you in the face use broad strokes of perametric. Also you need both general compression and a hard limiter after , Wrong order sucks out any life. Make sure you have a decent audience mic in the IEM mix to make It more real.
Take care with verb and delay Speakers give space that makes them breath IEM and phones can make a Verb or delay feel plastic .
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Post by formatcyes on Jun 11, 2015 20:42:41 GMT -6
Spent a lot of time with IEM back on wedges. Here's why.
They require a lot of maintance, Battery's, earbud's, earbud cables (they get damaged all the time), If your mix isent right it is way harder to deal with, much harder to get someone else joining in on stage, fault finding is not simple, your a bit insulated from the audience,
IEM are the best but they have issues my band just decided they where not worth the effort, wedges are way more idiot proof..
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jun 11, 2015 22:12:22 GMT -6
one of my church gigs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYVI6M8bHCU) has an Aviom system and everyone but me (or any guitarists/3rd keys) uses regular headphones. We get stuck listening to ourselves via the P.A. system, cuz they don't have enough Avioms or Headphones lol
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 12, 2015 0:05:02 GMT -6
one of my church gigs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYVI6M8bHCU) has an Aviom system and everyone but me (or any guitarists/3rd keys) uses regular headphones. We get stuck listening to ourselves via the P.A. system, cuz they don't have enough Avioms or Headphones lol you're a bad man chuck! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 12, 2015 7:01:46 GMT -6
one of my church gigs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYVI6M8bHCU) has an Aviom system and everyone but me (or any guitarists/3rd keys) uses regular headphones. We get stuck listening to ourselves via the P.A. system, cuz they don't have enough Avioms or Headphones lol Chuck I hear ya! IEMs are one of those things were you do it right or don't bother! Hate systems like Avioms , they can work with the right talent and good sub mixes, but most don't understand gains targeting and chew up their headroom! |
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Post by mobeach on Jun 12, 2015 9:17:07 GMT -6
I'm curious, I just got into the Worship band at church and they use in ear systems with individual mixers on the mic stands and I thought the sound was horrible, no dynamics at all, just dry, flat sound.. Out front it sounds great, A&H GLD112 is the console, but what can be done to increase the quality of the monitor mix? I miss floor wedges already.. This was my first time using in ear and I didn't care for it at all. Which in ear system? Most modern ones have a lot of onboard DSP! Start by dialing everything back and build mixes one by one with artists. I have always found the custom warm olds are worth their weight in gold. Jesse you have done enough wedge mixes to know this but the hard part is remembering you have to get an understanding of what the artist is saying they want! 1st rule of all monitor mixes " give me more..." Really mean turn down everything but ... It's all A&H these are the personal mixers we have, pricey little buggers! www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ME1PM |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 12, 2015 11:21:18 GMT -6
OK this isn't all about in ears, its as much about the fun of personal Mixers. Even though my old boss pretty much inventd thee things with the old Intellix system. I HATE HATE HATE HATE these things! The most successfull live uses of these live was Genesis and we promoted the hell out of it, but heres the thing they had a Great monitor mixer mixing stems for them!
People know what they want in a mix, but they don't know how to get it or communicate it. This is why great monitor mixers are hard to find you have to understand the artist want and deliver it.
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Post by mobeach on Jun 12, 2015 12:35:26 GMT -6
It's what I'm stuck with so I'll have to make the most out of it. It's only 5 songs a week besides rehearsals.
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Post by jayson on Jun 13, 2015 7:33:52 GMT -6
One IEM trick I heard of back in my FOH days was to set up an ambient room mic that could be mixed into the monitor sends. It helped to give the performers back the sense of acoustic context that seems to get lost when you move from wedges to IEMs.
On a related note; has anybody ever tried using IEMs in the studio? Seems like it could be a workable replacement for cans, but I'm a little reluctant to invest the cash to try it.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 13, 2015 7:58:38 GMT -6
One IEM trick I heard of back in my FOH days was to set up an ambient room mic that could be mixed into the monitor sends. It helped to give the performers back the sense of acoustic context that seems to get lost when you move from wedges to IEMs. On a related note; has anybody ever tried using IEMs in the studio? Seems like it could be a workable replacement for cans, but I'm a little reluctant to invest the cash to try it. Normally when I'm playing drums, I'll use my IE6 phones with gun mufflers on top to avoid as much bleed as possible. |
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 13, 2015 11:44:03 GMT -6
I believe the first time this stuff was used was on the 1983 Stevie Wonder tour. We had a guy that built the earbuds and set up the transmitters. Everyone signed up for them and got them. I ended up pulling them out as they were too loud once set to overcome the stage noise and I knew they would damage hearing long-term. They also stopped/interfered with sound location cues, I could never tell where the problems were coming from with them on.
They had too much top end spit and no low end depth. Wonder kept them but I went back to listening to the wedges onstage. Seems to me a quicker way to go deaf. I did use earplugs on stage since the 1970's, I knew that ears don't grow back.
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Post by WKG on Jun 13, 2015 18:55:59 GMT -6
One key to a good IEM experience is a good seal on the monitors. Without that you lose most of the low end and the benefit of isolation from the stage volume to protect your ears.
There's a minimal IEM setup for the music team at the church I play at which is basically just the aux sends from Presonus Live board to the stage. There are no individual mixers but I can use their cuemix iPad app to set basic levels. One of the things I don't like about this setup is that it's all mono, no panning to place the other instruments in a natural relative space and no room mics to provide a sense of connection to the room. Really tough to work with. We've got a pretty quiet stage and sometimes it helps to pop one ear out which gives me a sense of space and room connection. Make sure to set monitor volumes with both ears in and not to change the volume after you remove the other. The way the brain sums audio will trick you into thinking you need to turn up the remaining in ear and you risk serious damage if you do. I always keep the limiter engaged.
Sometimes I'll connect my Mipro wireless IEM and use my Shure's in the studio. Works fine and it's nice to be untethered for mic placement etc. Even if wired I'll often still use the Shure's for tracking, sounds great, much more comfortable, great isolation and no bleed.
I agree though, best to do them right or not at all.
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