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Post by gouge on Jun 8, 2015 19:28:09 GMT -6
ok, i'm looking for the low down (in words) between these 2 mics.
ela m 251 versus c12
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 8, 2015 19:43:43 GMT -6
ok, i'm looking for the low down (in words) between these 2 mics.
ela m 251 versus c12
...best to read this article: www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/vintage-microphones-part-3-akg-c-12-c-24-and-telefunken-250251/377062...the overview that, by 1959, with the scarcity of VF14 tubes, Telefunken commissioned AKG to essentially design a microphone to replace the Tele U47...so the ELA M250/251 is sort of the sonic bastard child of a C12 and a U47...the C12 has a somewhat "smiley-face" response, big top, big bottom, flat in the mids...the 251 brought a more upper mid-forward 47-ish voicing with a bit less bottom and top than the C12, while adding more "air" as well...oversimplifying, but you get the idea... |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 8, 2015 19:45:42 GMT -6
elam sounds like a U47 with C12 extension in the highs.
It was designed with eq to sound like the 47, but akg used the magic C12 capsule and they got what they got.... The perfect mic lol
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 8, 2015 19:47:55 GMT -6
I believe Neumann took telefunkens wheels off by starting distributing themselves? Tele went to AKG for a new design to be made as close to the U47 as possible.... |
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 8, 2015 19:51:46 GMT -6
I believe Neumann took telefunkens wheels off by starting distributing themselves? Tele went to AKG for a new design to be made as close to the U47 as possible.... ...due primarily to the military's disinterest in VF14 production (which Telefunken was forced to discontinue in 1958)...scarcity of available tubes led Neumann to introduce the Nuvistor, small signal receiving tube replacement kit for the VF14 requiring minor circuit modifications, by around 1962... |
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 8, 2015 20:07:41 GMT -6
C12's IMO are more delicate on who you put them on, and sound great on a lot of instruments. 251's are more of a mic you can throw up on most people and get a good sound. The plate bypass cap rolls off a lot of the upper air that C12's are known for, also, the C12 has some resonant distortion in the capsule around 10khz which is why that bypass cap on the 251 helps to control things getting harsh or too bright.
If you want a mic for vocals the 251 IMO is better suited and will get you farther. Both are great, it's just what you plan on using it for. C12 is great on some vocals and quite a few instruments. 251 is great on a lot of vocals and some instruments as well.
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Post by gouge on Jun 8, 2015 20:12:59 GMT -6
excellent responses!!! cheers.
I'm looking for a good all round mic for distance micing acoustic instruments and drums. I have an m49 half built but with no body on the cards I'm going to start putting together another mic and I'd like something that's different.
the closest to a c12 type of thing I've heard is the c414XLII which I do like even though it gets panned. it has become a go to room mic for me. so I'd like something similar but with more depth and something that would offset the m49 for vocal shootouts.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 8, 2015 20:17:51 GMT -6
You can have it both ways.... the C12 base can be used, and with a few changes it can be dimed into a very open and detailed mic, but that upper air can also be controlled if you put it in the right hands  |
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Post by gouge on Jun 8, 2015 20:37:30 GMT -6
You can have it both ways.... the C12 base can be used, and with a few changes it can be dimed into a very open and detailed mic, but that upper air can also be controlled if you put it in the right hands keen to hear more |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 8, 2015 21:44:25 GMT -6
My tweaked out DIY Matachung C12 sounds just silly great on most instruments, but it's actually too detailed for human voices so far. If u check out the winecamp shootout on this site, there are some cool samples to listen to.
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Post by gouge on Jun 9, 2015 5:14:09 GMT -6
thanks,
what model was the 414 that got the capsule upgrade?
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Post by aremos on Jun 9, 2015 8:34:22 GMT -6
Wouldn't call it an upgrade but the EB's went from brass to nylon.
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Post by gouge on Jun 9, 2015 16:06:39 GMT -6
Cheers tho i was meaning the 414 in tony's shootout. It had a tc12 upgrade.
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Post by winetree on Jun 9, 2015 17:48:00 GMT -6
That was my original nylon capsule 414EB. I have a pair from the early 1980s.
I replaced one of the original nylon capsules with a Tim Campbell Brass Caspule.
I wanted to do a comparison of the two but we ran out of time.
When I get my R.M. Superbeast II, we'll do another shootout of my mic builds at my place.
My builds include; 47 tubes and fets, 67s, C12s, 251s, M49s, ribbons and the original 414s.
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Post by gouge on Jun 9, 2015 17:59:32 GMT -6
the 414 with capsule upgrade is something I'd consider if I can find a cost effective eb. tims capsule is about $500 aud so it's up there but the cost of the c12 kit is over 1k not including time so it may well be a possible avenue.
did you feel there was a worthwhile increase in sound quality by swapping out the capsule in the 414?
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 9, 2015 18:28:54 GMT -6
but the cost of the c12 kit is over 1k not including time ...I've bought two beautifully assembled MataChung C12 builds with PSUs and cables on eBay, both with good Chinese edge-terminated capsules, one with a Cinemag tranny, the other with an AMI...I paid $375 for one and $510 for the other, shipped!...they can be found, just keep a look out, or post a WTB thread in the GroupDIY "Blackmarket" forum... |
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Post by gouge on Jun 9, 2015 21:02:39 GMT -6
fingers crossed kvybes because I'm a serial bayer. :-)
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Post by yotonic on Jun 9, 2015 23:38:18 GMT -6
I owned the Telefunken ELAM 251 reissue and I thought they did an excellent job on it. Really a top notch mic and worth $7k all day long (if it makes sense for someone). Great on vocals, insane on drum overheads. The C12 (in my opinion) doesn't have a comparable reissue, to the original. If you come across a real C12 or great clone the high end can be absolute magic on some vocalists, super musical sweetness and extension. If you have a singer with the right register its the best mic there is for vocals in my opinion. (Marvin Gaye) I have owned a couple of C12 clones and they fell way short from the original in the bottom end extension and pinched a lot. Here is a conversation on your exact question with David Bock who knows a few things. prorecordingworkshop.lefora.com/topic/3864313/C12-v-ELAM251-Differences#.VXfMQFZ97wI |
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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 10, 2015 5:27:50 GMT -6
I owned the Telefunken ELAM 251 reissue and I thought they did an excellent job on it. Really a top notch mic and worth $7k all day long (if it makes sense for someone). Great on vocals, insane on drum overheads. The C12 (in my opinion) doesn't have a comparable reissue, to the original. If you come across a real C12 or great clone the high end can be absolute magic on some vocalists, super musical sweetness and extension. If you have a singer with the right register its the best mic there is for vocals in my opinion. (Marvin Gaye) I have owned a couple of C12 clones and they fell way short from the original in the bottom end extension and pinched a lot. Here is a conversation on your exact question with David Bock who knows a few things. prorecordingworkshop.lefora.com/topic/3864313/C12-v-ELAM251-Differences#.VXfMQFZ97wISo far, an amazing read, on page 3. Can't wait to read the rest. Thanks yotonic. |
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Post by Ward on Jun 10, 2015 5:45:25 GMT -6
I owned the Telefunken ELAM 251 reissue and I thought they did an excellent job on it. Really a top notch mic and worth $7k all day long (if it makes sense for someone). Great on vocals, insane on drum overheads. The C12 (in my opinion) doesn't have a comparable reissue, to the original. If you come across a real C12 or great clone the high end can be absolute magic on some vocalists, super musical sweetness and extension. If you have a singer with the right register its the best mic there is for vocals in my opinion. (Marvin Gaye) I have owned a couple of C12 clones and they fell way short from the original in the bottom end extension and pinched a lot. Here is a conversation on your exact question with David Bock who knows a few things. prorecordingworkshop.lefora.com/topic/3864313/C12-v-ELAM251-Differences#.VXfMQFZ97wIThe T-Funk 251 reissue is on my list also. Although it may take me a couple more years before I buy one. But it does NAIL the sound. It's a more exact reissue than almost anything else that has been re-released. It is just the perfect microphone. |
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