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Post by cowboycoalminer on May 25, 2015 13:27:07 GMT -6
I like him a lot. Smart man. Yeah he's smart, but how's his foreign policy? Does he know economics? Ha! Does Obama??
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Post by LesC on May 25, 2015 13:56:43 GMT -6
Sadly, as a Christian who has always been happy to see gay folk suffer the pains of marriage and divorce, like the rest of us... I find that there is a category of folks I am at odds with: The LEFT. It's like a grab-bag of crazy: Deny 911. Hate Christians. LBGT rights. Gay Marriage. Pro-'Palestine' and anti-Israel. Support Islam because it hates Christians, yet ignore that Muslims routinely marriage-rape little girls, mutilate their genitals, throw gays from the tops of buildings or hang them or behead them... and that gets no mention. Show up at anti-petroleum rallies in Seattle in kayaks made from petroleum. Free drugs for everyone...except no consideration for what drugs are doing to society. The LEFT are the biggest bunch of hypocrites on the planet and the reason there isn't more support for gay suffering (marriage) is because you all bring so many other wing-nut ideas with you. JMHO Strangely, I'm one of the lefties you're so concerned about, yet I agree with you about most of the stuff you wrote about. Most of my friends are lefties, but I don't know anybody who denies 911, hates Christians, is Pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel, supports Muslims, supports free drugs. Where do you get your information about the LEFT, Fox News? There are lots of crazy people in the world, why would you attribute anything you disagree with to the LEFT? I attribute them to the crazy people, for whom left-or-right is the least of their concerns. It's funny, because I agree with almost everything you wrote, and might have said lets go out for a beer and see why you think the LGBT community doesn't deserve the same rights as others. But instead, by attributing these lunacies to the LEFT, you come off as a right-wing-nut. No wonder the state of US politics is what it is.
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Post by M57 on May 25, 2015 13:58:20 GMT -6
Sadly, as a Christian who has always been happy to see gay folk suffer the pains of marriage and divorce, like the rest of us... I find that there is a category of folks I am at odds with: The LEFT. It's like a grab-bag of crazy: Deny 911. Hate Christians. LBGT rights. Gay Marriage. Pro-'Palestine' and anti-Israel. Support Islam because it hates Christians, yet ignore that Muslims routinely marriage-rape little girls, mutilate their genitals, throw gays from the tops of buildings or hang them or behead them... and that gets no mention. Show up at anti-petroleum rallies in Seattle in kayaks made from petroleum. Free drugs for everyone...except no consideration for what drugs are doing to society. The LEFT are the biggest bunch of hypocrites on the planet and the reason there isn't more support for gay suffering (marriage) is because you all bring so many other wing-nut ideas with you. JMHO ..and the RIGHT? Hate Muslims (they don't realize it but they really hate the Arabic culture with which it is intertwined - come to think of it, they hate all cultures that don't eat steak and swill beer), No LBGT (and God help them, Q) rights - they would prefer to deprogram them and force hetero down their throats (think rape 'cause I'm running with a theme here) but can't say it any more because they need the votes. Pro-Israel (Remember, Israel is the center of the theist universe - no doubt the Christian right would take care of the Jews after eradicating the Muslims) - Anti-Imigration (the once world-renown and respected American Dream is suddenly only for bona-fide natural born Americans). Build petroleum filled kayaks, happily raping the land of its natural resources. Hate the poor - equally happy to let them be raped by the new US "naturalized" citizen, corporations. Let's be honest.. The problem lies on both sides of the spectrum - go far enough in one direction and the looneys come out to play. Basically the same amount of looneys and the same amount of hate can be found on both sides of the aisle. It's why the US government is at a standstill and unless the intelligent middle can figure out how to contain it, US style democracy will head into a death-spiral.
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Post by mobeach on May 25, 2015 14:09:25 GMT -6
Yeah he's smart, but how's his foreign policy? Does he know economics? Ha! Does Obama?? Hahahahaha! F__K No! But at least Tyson is smart.
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Post by mobeach on May 25, 2015 14:15:07 GMT -6
Sadly, as a Christian who has always been happy to see gay folk suffer the pains of marriage and divorce, like the rest of us... I find that there is a category of folks I am at odds with: The LEFT. It's like a grab-bag of crazy: Deny 911. Hate Christians. LBGT rights. Gay Marriage. Pro-'Palestine' and anti-Israel. Support Islam because it hates Christians, yet ignore that Muslims routinely marriage-rape little girls, mutilate their genitals, throw gays from the tops of buildings or hang them or behead them... and that gets no mention. Show up at anti-petroleum rallies in Seattle in kayaks made from petroleum. Free drugs for everyone...except no consideration for what drugs are doing to society. The LEFT are the biggest bunch of hypocrites on the planet and the reason there isn't more support for gay suffering (marriage) is because you all bring so many other wing-nut ideas with you. JMHO ..and the RIGHT? Hate Muslims (they don't realize it but they really hate Arabic culture with which it is intertwined - come to think of it, they hate all cultures that don't eat steak and swill beer), No LBGT rights (would prefer to Deprogram and Force Hetero down our throats, but can't say it because they need the votes) Pro-Israel (Remember, Israel is the center of the universe - no doubt the Christian right would take care of the Jews after eradicating the Muslims) - Anti-Imigration (the world-renown American Dream is suddenly only for bona-fide natural born Americans). Build petroleum filled kayaks, happily raping the land of its natural resources. Hate the poor - happy to let them be raped by the "new" US citizen, corporations. Let's be honest.. The problem lies on both sides of the spectrum - go far enough in one direction and the looneys come out to play. Basically the same amount looneys and the same amount of hate. It's why the US government is at a standstill and unless the intelligent middle can figure out how to contain it, US style democracy is heading into a death-spiral. So what's the solution? Split into different Republics like Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia?
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Post by M57 on May 25, 2015 14:17:58 GMT -6
So what's the solution? Split into different Republics like Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia? You mean like the Republics of Texas and California? I'd be for that as long as I wouldn't have to live in either of them. If only it could be that simple.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on May 25, 2015 15:11:16 GMT -6
In regards to this whole "left/right" thing, i'm just gonna set this here:
The hashtag they should've used: #BroWhyYouGottaBeADick
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Post by mobeach on May 25, 2015 15:39:19 GMT -6
In regards to this whole "left/right" thing, i'm just gonna set this here: The hashtag they should've used: #BroWhyYouGottaBeADick I suggest we take cash away from the programs for illegal aliens and create programs for veterans. Or maybe stop giving billions to other stupid programs and other countries and put it into programs for veterans. But we can't just vote on bills and say there ya go! Things take money. DOHS just got their funding, then the terrorist threats against U.S. Malls suddenly disappears. That whole threat was fabricated in order to drum up support for DOHS's funding. And that agency isn't even needed!
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Post by jazznoise on May 25, 2015 17:19:43 GMT -6
Strangely, I'm one of the lefties you're so concerned about, yet I agree with you about most of the stuff you wrote about. Most of my friends are lefties, but I don't know anybody who denies 911, hates Christians, is Pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel, supports Muslims, supports free drugs. Where do you get your information about the LEFT, Fox News? There are lots of crazy people in the world, why would you attribute anything you disagree with to the LEFT? I attribute them to the crazy people, for whom left-or-right is the least of their concerns. It's funny, because I agree with almost everything you wrote, and might have said lets go out for a beer and see why you think the LGBT community doesn't deserve the same rights as others. But instead, by attributing these lunacies to the LEFT, you come off as a right-wing-nut. No wonder the state of US politics is what it is. I think the word Left in itself is strange. It certainly means a very different thing to you guys than me. Being a European lefty (well, I'm a little far most - but I'll give you the basic concept of what European left is). This is the kind of stuff you'll hear my parents or a guy in his 30's working in a tech support centre advocate. Pro LGBT Pro Secularized Government Pro Welfare State Pro-Palestine/Civil Rights Anti-Monopoly Anti-American Jingoism Anti-Islamophobia And certain things you guys have on the left and right are universal. For instance basically all Europeans believe having guns kept illegal is a privileged that protects us from ourselves. In Ireland the police don't even carry guns. It's just not even up for debate. Likewise Climate Change is universally regarded as an existing problem. Denialists aren't fringe - they're chemtrail fanatics and David Ike Jewish Lizard type conspiracy theorists. This Fox News idea of what the left does is frightening. Especially as it justifies bomb droning Pakistan with empty rhetoric and post 9/11 paranoia. "Oh we let the Middle East get out of control before and look what happened". Meanwhile the constant attempts to destabilize have led to their effectively being no one in the Urdu and Arabic speaking areas who can set up a democratic state because they'll be accused of being American allies. The most recent atrocity America's far right has committed is generating the material conditions to spawn ISIS. American guns in a puppet's state hands that was too lazy and corrupt to even keep an eye on them, while Al Qaeda was cornered so heavily it reacted with even more radical thinking and a new group emerged. And all of this has nothing to do with gay marriage. Not to mention, I don't feel like anyone in American politics falls into a European definition of left. Obama is centre right, at best. The republican party is still fondling themselves to that old picture of Reagan they keep in their wallets. Both parties are aware no majority really wants either as their representative, so it's who can muster the next "Tea Party" style fakesy internal revolution will swing the next seat. Maybe the Democrats will start a little Hugbox Brigade - we still like killing sand people, but we like to hug afterwards or something.
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Post by M57 on May 25, 2015 17:39:09 GMT -6
I think the word Left in itself is strange. It certainly means a very different thing to you guys than me. Being a European lefty (well, I'm a little far most - but I'll give you the basic concept of what European left is). This is the kind of stuff you'll hear my parents or a guy in his 30's working in a tech support centre advocate. Pro LGBT Pro Secularized Government Pro Welfare State Pro-Palestine/Civil Rights Anti-Monopoly Anti-American Jingoism Anti-Islamophobia I would say the left on this side of the pond is in the same camp given the above criteria. There's not really much difference between our lefts and rights except that the fulcrum of the political spectrum over here falls significantly to the right of rest of the world. The phrase "Welfare State" is tantamount to heresy over here, but the left is far more likely to endorse those types of programs. Part of the problem is that the left (to its detriment) tends to be much less financially conservative, so what might be slightly different is that the term 'fiscal conservative' is seen as the domain of the Right, and 'progressive' is reserved for the Left.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 25, 2015 18:06:41 GMT -6
Why don't we just give all the money to the government and let them decide what to do with it? They can take care of us...because they operate like a well-oiled machine...And while we're at it, lets make sure those in charge of the government don't believe in God, but let's leave religion as an opium for the masses because those people are so stupid they put God first in their lives. And we should support Arabs in the Middle East. They have made it very clear that they would like to wipe the one Democracy in the region off the face of the earth (because of their religious beliefs)...Oh, and lets make sure they have nuclear reactors too - they only want them for electricity. We also shouldn't profile Islam at all - because they have proven they can be trusted on EVERY level. Also, we should get rid the hundreds of Antitrust laws that the FTC enforces daily, because it should be illegal to build a company that is extremely successful and employing thousands of people - I mean, my God, you've got to be crooked if you're successful.
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Post by M57 on May 25, 2015 18:35:20 GMT -6
Anyone who's taken Micro Economics 101 can tell you why there are things that the government does best for its citizens, and there are things that the private sector can do better than government. And just as they have their efficiencies and inefficiencies, both are equally capable of harboring corruption. Denouncing one over the other does nothing to help society manage the delicate balancing act that keeps the entire machine oiled.
If you really take time to think it through, YOUR religion (whatever it may be) is BEST served by an agnostic government (not atheist). Yes, separation of church and state is not in the Constitution, and I have no stomach for debating the 'intent' of its authors, so you tell me ..which God do you want the POTUS to pray to at bedtime? Let me guess.. Certainly not Allah - a Jewish God is probably gonna make you feel uneasy, but at least it's the same dude, right? A Catholic POTUS might be taking some bad advice from the Pope. And God Forbid an atheist ever sits in the Oval Office. Nope - All Religions (including atheism) are practiced most robustly and productively in a benignly indifferent political atmosphere of tolerance.
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Post by yotonic on May 25, 2015 18:37:18 GMT -6
I mean, my God, you've got to be crooked if you're successful. LOL! There is some truth to that. We just don't call it crooked in corporate america and beyond. We call it "pushing the envelope", or "thinking outside of the box". The only problem is when you're on the wrong end of the machine, like songwriters to Spotify. The corporation I used to work for in New York moved our headquarters to Ireland so that we could get away with paying far less taxes than we really were supposed to. It never bothered me until I got a little older and realized that the world can become a really ravenous place when people justify any behavior on "what's best for business". It certainly isn't a mantra that jibes with any religion or necessarily a life well lived.
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Post by jazznoise on May 25, 2015 18:39:19 GMT -6
Why don't we just give all the money to the government and let them decide what to do with it? They can take care of us...because they operate like a well-oiled machine...And while we're at it, lets make sure those in charge of the government don't believe in God, but let's leave religion as an opium for the masses because those people are so stupid they put God first in their lives. And we should support Arabs in the Middle East. They have made it very clear that they would like to wipe the one Democracy in the region off the face of the earth (because of their religious beliefs)...Oh, and lets make sure they have nuclear reactors too - they only want them for electricity. We also shouldn't profile Islam at all - because they have proven they can be trusted on EVERY level. Also, we should get rid the hundreds of Antitrust laws that the FTC enforces daily, because it should be illegal to build a company that is extremely successful and employing thousands of people - I mean, my God, you've got to be crooked if you're successful. Let's break down that narrative real lickety split. 1) No one is saying that the government should own all money. This is a hangover from bitter confederates that the Neo Liberal Republicans have dug up. In general what people on the left are saying is cut contracts with Lockhead Martin and give the money to the people who get their hands blown off by Lockhead Martin's guns. 2) I think the idea that freedom of religion without a religious government is not a ridiculous idea. The idea is that just because Mitt Romney is a Mormon doesn't mean America under him should mean that NASA has to run a program to build a spaceship so we can fly into space to meet Jesus. Religious beliefs are fine, but policy should be guided by evidence. 3)You do realize that America was the one who gave Al Qaeda rocket launchers and AK47's in the 80's to repel the Soviet Invasion? They also promised 20 years of foreign aid for fighting this proxy war to help establish a government and delivered less than 5 - leaving a broken Afghanistan smoldering in the mountains. It was actually one of the most progressive 3rd world nations of the time, there was women lecturers and you could get divorced and so on. Of course when the poverty really sank into it in the 90's it become an illiterate backwards society that eventually turned its guns on those they had sacrificed so much for. This one is classical racist right bullshit. When Nixon was friends with them it was okay, now that Bachmann's not we should blow em all to hell etc. 4) Israel was established by the British as they de-colonized Palestine. They were warned at the time that not consulting neighbour territories before started a purely Jewish nation would have disastrous results. Anyway rather than try to talk after the 8 day war, they began receiving that 8 billion a year or so dollar funding from the US to keep their military afloat as well as superfluous unprofitable trade contracts (Europe still imports Israeli potatoes and Ireland grows enough of them to drown the continent in starchy goodness). Until they started making silicon dye for Intel processors and really crazy assault rifles there was basically nothing of worth coming from Israel. Meanwhile there was never any attempt to give Muslim representation within Israel - which pissed off neighbour regions, who actually didn't really like Palestinians in the first place (Yeah it seems crazy, but it's like that there. Remember what a Samaritan is?). Things were permanently soured about 10 years ago when the Hamas leader agreed to meet the Israeli government only to be assassinated upon arrival. Welp. Interestingly enough the reason the far right supports this is historically the same. It came from the pre WW II idea that the way to solve the "Jewish Problem" was to ship them out of Europe to the Middle East. Basically give them a country so you can say "Fuck off back to where you came from". The Republican party has always used the Jewish nation Zionist narrative and that's because the ideology is the same - American is for Americans, Israel is for Jews. At this stage most pragmatic leftists want a 1 state solution - Israel takes the entire Palestinian territory and nationalizes everyone instead of just importing Ethiopian Jews and killing any Palestinian villages they can get away with as a form of democratic ethnic cleansing. Currently the average age in the occupied territories for a Palestinian is about 16. That means there are almost no living adults in the region. Think about that - think about 50 miles of missile defence and 10 foot tall concrete walls surrounding a bunch of scared children and teenagers. 4) As for major companies - competition laws are good. Your exact complaint with government is insufficient transparency - you can't justify private companies being non transparent in their dealings if that's the case. Both inevitably provide you services - you can't avoid Kraft Foods or Google's IT any more than you can avoid Uncle Sam, you should have a stake in the affairs. I mean look at BP, look at Fanny Mae. Seems like they can just do what they want these days - too big to fail is a dangerous economic situation. Compartmentalizing risk, even if it means breaking up someone's company, is worth the safety net it provides.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on May 25, 2015 18:50:13 GMT -6
Israel was established by the British? I know Someone who would differ with that opinion.
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Post by jazznoise on May 25, 2015 19:05:07 GMT -6
Israel was established by the British? I know Someone who would differ with that opinion. Firstly it's a historical fact, not an opinion. Secondly the big owner of that territory before then was Arabs, then Byzantian era Rome, then the Arabs again. So where does staking a claim come in again? But anyway gistorical precedence of ownership isn't the argument. The argument is that if you're going to set up a country in a territory with a very distinct agenda, check with surrounding nations and DON'T do it as a means of legitimising the expulsion of Jews from Europe. And also don't spend 30 years bombing them to the point of radicalization.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 25, 2015 19:06:58 GMT -6
Why don't we just give all the money to the government and let them decide what to do with it? They can take care of us...because they operate like a well-oiled machine...And while we're at it, lets make sure those in charge of the government don't believe in God, but let's leave religion as an opium for the masses because those people are so stupid they put God first in their lives. And we should support Arabs in the Middle East. They have made it very clear that they would like to wipe the one Democracy in the region off the face of the earth (because of their religious beliefs)...Oh, and lets make sure they have nuclear reactors too - they only want them for electricity. We also shouldn't profile Islam at all - because they have proven they can be trusted on EVERY level. Also, we should get rid the hundreds of Antitrust laws that the FTC enforces daily, because it should be illegal to build a company that is extremely successful and employing thousands of people - I mean, my God, you've got to be crooked if you're successful. Let's break down that narrative real lickety split. 1) No one is saying that the government should own all money. This is a hangover from bitter confederates that the Neo Liberal Republicans have dug up. In general what people on the left are saying is cut contracts with Lockhead Martin and give the money to the people who get their hands blown off by Lockhead Martin's guns. 2) I think the idea that freedom of religion without a religious government is not a ridiculous idea. The idea is that just because Mitt Romney is a Mormon doesn't mean America under him should mean that NASA has to run a program to build a spaceship so we can fly into space to meet Jesus. Religious beliefs are fine, but policy should be guided by evidence. 3)You do realize that America was the one who gave Al Qaeda rocket launchers and AK47's in the 80's to repel the Soviet Invasion? They also promised 20 years of foreign aid for fighting this proxy war to help establish a government and delivered less than 5 - leaving a broken Afghanistan smoldering in the mountains. It was actually one of the most progressive 3rd world nations of the time, there was women lecturers and you could get divorced and so on. Of course when the poverty really sank into it in the 90's it become an illiterate backwards society that eventually turned its guns on those they had sacrificed so much for. This one is classical racist right bullshit. When Nixon was friends with them it was okay, now that Bachmann's not we should blow em all to hell etc. 4) Israel was established by the British as they de-colonized Palestine. They were warned at the time that not consulting neighbour territories before started a purely Jewish nation would have disastrous results. Anyway rather than try to talk after the 8 day war, they began receiving that 8 billion a year or so dollar funding from the US to keep their military afloat as well as superfluous unprofitable trade contracts (Europe still imports Israeli potatoes and Ireland grows enough of them to drown the continent in starchy goodness). Until they started making silicon dye for Intel processors and really crazy assault rifles there was basically nothing of worth coming from Israel. Meanwhile there was never any attempt to give Muslim representation within Israel - which pissed off neighbour regions, who actually didn't really like Palestinians in the first place (Yeah it seems crazy, but it's like that there. Remember what a Samaritan is?). Things were permanently soured about 10 years ago when the Hamas leader agreed to meet the Israeli government only to be assassinated upon arrival. Welp. Interestingly enough the reason the far right supports this is historically the same. It came from the pre WW II idea that the way to solve the "Jewish Problem" was to ship them out of Europe to the Middle East. Basically give them a country so you can say "Fuck off back to where you came from". The Republican party has always used the Jewish nation Zionist narrative and that's because the ideology is the same - American is for Americans, Israel is for Jews. At this stage most pragmatic leftists want a 1 state solution - Israel takes the entire Palestinian territory and nationalizes everyone instead of just importing Ethiopian Jews and killing any Palestinian villages they can get away with as a form of democratic ethnic cleansing. Currently the average age in the occupied territories for a Palestinian is about 16. That means there are almost no living adults in the region. Think about that - think about 50 miles of missile defence and 10 foot tall concrete walls surrounding a bunch of scared children and teenagers. 4) As for major companies - competition laws are good. Your exact complaint with government is insufficient transparency - you can't justify private companies being non transparent in their dealings if that's the case. Both inevitably provide you services - you can't avoid Kraft Foods or Google's IT any more than you can avoid Uncle Sam, you should have a stake in the affairs. I mean look at BP, look at Fanny Mae. Seems like they can just do what they want these days - too big to fail is a dangerous economic situation. Compartmentalizing risk, even if it means breaking up someone's company, is worth the safety net it provides. All of that is so filled with inaccuracies, ideology and bullshit, it's sad. You are sad.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 25, 2015 19:11:31 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on May 25, 2015 19:15:34 GMT -6
With that, I'm locking this thread - and creating a new rule - No Politics. There's no point in it on a Pro Audio forum. I can't stand hearing the left spew their opinions and I'm sure they don't want to hear mine...So, there you go. And on top of that, it's freaking Memorial Day.
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