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Post by gouge on May 6, 2015 16:14:25 GMT -6
I've got a session coming up next week with a folk/alt country artist.
looking at the drum setup I'm thinking of keeping it fairly simple. like 4-5 mics and a stereo room setup. taking some inspirations from wilco
keen to hear other peoples approach.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 6, 2015 20:31:32 GMT -6
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Post by gouge on May 6, 2015 20:50:53 GMT -6
yeah, that's why I posted the question. I'd been thinking a pair of oktavas in xy and sm57 on snare with sm7b on kick.
but in the back of my mind I really want to try u47 over tom and u87 over snare and sm7b on kick recorderman style because I know those mics in those positions work well.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 6, 2015 20:52:39 GMT -6
I love the sound of a GJ's setup...
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Post by gouge on May 6, 2015 20:54:14 GMT -6
sold! :-)
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Post by jeromemason on May 6, 2015 21:16:40 GMT -6
Dude..... do yourself a favor and get Randge to get intimate on the details of his technique.... those are some of the easiest drums to mix I've ever in my life done. I did a mix the other day and I swear all I had on them was a dbx 560 on the snare with some filtering and the same on the kick, pulled a little 400 out of the OH's to open them up and no joke, I didn't have to eq or compress anything else. Just wide open and crack-ah-lackin like a mofo. Smooth.... smooth as silk those drums are. |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 6, 2015 21:21:32 GMT -6
I really don't want to see Randy get intimate...
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Post by gouge on May 6, 2015 21:27:57 GMT -6
yes, in all seriousness I asked the question hoping guys like Randge would chime in. I don't get the opportunities to just talk about techniques with guys doing this stuff day in day out on a regular basis and this particular genre I know is real gear bread and butter. I do respect JK's take on it and everyone else as well. |
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Post by ragan on May 6, 2015 22:37:01 GMT -6
Uh...I want to hear Randge's technique too.
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Post by Randge on May 6, 2015 23:10:11 GMT -6
As little eq and compression as possible in my main trick. I am not a fan of how most compressors cloud up the drums the minute you start clamping down on them. They instantly take the "in the room with the drums" sound that I want to hear and make it sound unrealistic and simply recorded sounding. Depending on the right or wrong ones, they can also take a nice depth of field and make it a flat wall of sound, which is the current fave for pop country and rock. Feel free to ask any questions and I can give you the run down on what I do. 14 channels of RTZ preamps are also a lot of the clear, warm and punchy sound. Good mics and those go a long ways.
R
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Post by levon on May 7, 2015 1:24:23 GMT -6
yeah, that's why I posted the question. I'd been thinking a pair of oktavas in xy and sm57 on snare with sm7b on kick. but in the back of my mind I really want to try u47 over tom and u87 over snare and sm7b on kick recorderman style because I know those mics in those positions work well. I use the 47 over the snare/tom and the 87 over the floortom (Glyn Johns style) with a D12 in front of the kick and a Telefunken M80 on the snare. Sounds very good in my little room. Often I overdub fills and use an MD421 on each tom. The Glyn Johns thingy works extremely well. |
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Post by wiz on May 7, 2015 1:34:30 GMT -6
Geeze ... You guys have 47s  Cheers Wiz |
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Post by levon on May 7, 2015 2:08:37 GMT -6
Don't despair, when you reach my age, you'll have one too  |
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Post by gouge on May 7, 2015 2:54:44 GMT -6
mines a clone. so is the 87. but I refer to them as u47 and u87 because that's the thing they do. in the case of the 87 it's a jolly modified nt2a and in the case of the 47 it's a jolly modified ntk. as luck would have it I also have a pair of km84's, again jolly modified mk012, plus I've got a pair of schoeps mics as well. aka ksm137.......
;-)
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Post by gouge on May 7, 2015 2:56:50 GMT -6
thanks levon. interesting you go the other way than me. was the original GJ setup the u47 over snare? I've always put the u87 (clone) over the snare. well, I don't know why.
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Post by gouge on May 7, 2015 3:14:30 GMT -6
As little eq and compression as possible in my main trick. I am not a fan of how most compressors cloud up the drums the minute you start clamping down on them. They instantly take the "in the room with the drums" sound that I want to hear and make it sound unrealistic and simply recorded sounding. Depending on the right or wrong ones, they can also take a nice depth of field and make it a flat wall of sound, which is the current fave for pop country and rock. Feel free to ask any questions and I can give you the run down on what I do. 14 channels of RTZ preamps are also a lot of the clear, warm and punchy sound. Good mics and those go a long ways. R thanks Randge.
I'm onboard with the eq/comp thing. I don't track drums with either and although I use both at mix time for whatever reason when I am tracking drums it just doesn't sound right to my ears at that stage of the game.
well my first thoughts was.
lola with modified mk012 xy overhead ma-5 with sm7b kick vp28 with sm57 snare ma-5 with modified nt2a out front sytek - spaced pair ev 635a Omni room mics.
because the artist has specifically used the word vintage and his albums to date have the drums set back in the mix and fairly narrow. I have said that i'll get a sound happening then well se where it's at aesthetically for him.
I like that setup above because this is an important gig for me and I am not doing the mixing so I want good an outcome as possible (as I always do).
then I got to thinking that possibly the glynn johns + a mono overhead would be potentially more flexible for the mix engineer.
something like vp28 - sm57 snare lola - modified ntk tom side lola - modified nt2a snare side ma-5 - sm7b kick ma-5 - c414 Omni mono overhead. sytek - spaced pair ev 635a Omni room mics.
all of that aside. ultimately I am keen to keep this in genre.
I didn't mention specific gear initially because I like to try and understand the big picture things like mic patterns, placements for particular outcomes.
things like, tube mic in Omni here and sdc card there or dynamic over here. I understand each piece of gear brings a particular tone to the table but I've always been conscious of the pragmatics of each tool and how that informs the outcome. |
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Post by levon on May 7, 2015 3:48:18 GMT -6
thanks levon. interesting you go the other way than me. was the original GJ setup the u47 over snare? I've always put the u87 (clone) over the snare. well, I don't know why. Not sure what mics Glyn Johns used, I just referred to the basic setup. I use my 47 over the snare because that's the best mic I have and I wanted it capture as much of the drumkit as possible. The 87 is a Neumann AI version that was lovingly tuned by Andreas Grosser. He also built my 47. The funny thing is that, with this setup, the 2 'overheads' can be totally different mics and it still sounds great. |
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Post by levon on May 7, 2015 3:52:59 GMT -6
I forget to mention that I also started to use an 'over-kick mic', something that Eric Valentine does. I bought a Mojave Ma-201 that has a U67-ish character for that duty and it turned out pretty good. Greg Wells describes that method in one of the Pensado videos.
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Post by tonycamphd on May 7, 2015 6:56:12 GMT -6
mines a clone. so is the 87. but I refer to them as u47 and u87 because that's the thing they do. in the case of the 87 it's a jolly modified nt2a and in the case of the 47 it's a jolly modified ntk. as luck would have it I also have a pair of km84's, again jolly modified mk012, plus I've got a pair of schoeps mics as well. aka ksm137....... ;-) My Nt2 modded by the man who created it has a Neumann k67 capsule in it and winetree's Wally Heider Neumann U87s absolutely crushed it. No offense, but let's keep it real around here, what is actually matters on a gear forum. Those mic's are not clones in circuit, housing or capsule to the Neumann's, u have Joly modded mic's with Chinese made capsules if they are by his hand. Call them what they are, I felt a bit duped when I read this as I thought u had the real stuff. |
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Post by dandeurloo on May 7, 2015 8:56:06 GMT -6
I'd for sure do a less is more setup and mono. I did a record with 3 mics I really dug. Old school country/trucker music. I used a OH (MK47), kick mic (re20) and a snare mic (D19). I ended up compressing it all together and running into a Pultec I think at mix. Super easy and appropriate sounding. More vibe then if I had used more mics.
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Post by svart on May 7, 2015 9:03:40 GMT -6
I really don't want to see Randy get intimate... Don't you want to see what he's hiding behind that beard? C'mon, you know you want to run your hands through that thing. |
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Post by svart on May 7, 2015 9:06:16 GMT -6
I'm not a fan of XY. The image is too narrow to start with. I'm a big fan of ORTF for overheads.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 7, 2015 10:42:44 GMT -6
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Post by gouge on May 7, 2015 15:27:48 GMT -6
mines a clone. so is the 87. but I refer to them as u47 and u87 because that's the thing they do. in the case of the 87 it's a jolly modified nt2a and in the case of the 47 it's a jolly modified ntk. as luck would have it I also have a pair of km84's, again jolly modified mk012, plus I've got a pair of schoeps mics as well. aka ksm137....... ;-) My Nt2 modded by the man who created it has a Neumann k67 capsule in it and winetree's Wally Heider Neumann U87s absolutely crushed it. No offense, but let's keep it real around here, what is actually matters on a gear forum. Those mic's are not clones in circuit, housing or capsule to the Neumann's, u have Joly modded mic's with Chinese made capsules if they are by his hand. Call them what they are, I felt a bit duped when I read this as I thought u had the real stuff. That's fair enough. As I pointed out we loosely refer to them by those terms. Mainly because that's what they are striving to emulate. But you are correct mj doesn't refer to them as clones. I should also point out that the a/b blind test jolly did between his u87 mod and his u87 saw a majority prefer his mod. |
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Post by gouge on May 7, 2015 18:40:28 GMT -6
ok, seems to be stalling a little so hopefully this sparks things off s little more.
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