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Post by jeromemason on Apr 26, 2015 16:27:58 GMT -6
Swurve I always use comp distortion. 2 birds with one stone kind of thing but I guess a pedal would work. Kinna the same sound without the note length a compressor adds. Thanks. I was thinking about those Sans Amp pedals that have "character" buttons which controls the distortion of the sound. I've never had one and wondered about that type of distortion compared to an 1176 or LA2A type compression distortion which I own. A lot of players use Sans Amp pedals, they dial just enough to make it cut a little when tracking and that's about it. That tone to me is pure gold. Usually it's just P bass' or Jazz bass', I'm not a massive fan of Warwick's and such for tracking or that style in general because they don't feel like they have as much punch to me. The P bass is my fav, has punch, and you can dial in some really nice lowend too. |
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Post by swurveman on Apr 26, 2015 16:57:55 GMT -6
Thanks. I was thinking about those Sans Amp pedals that have "character" buttons which controls the distortion of the sound. I've never had one and wondered about that type of distortion compared to an 1176 or LA2A type compression distortion which I own. A lot of players use Sans Amp pedals, they dial just enough to make it cut a little when tracking and that's about it. That tone to me is pure gold. Usually it's just P bass' or Jazz bass', I'm not a massive fan of Warwick's and such for tracking or that style in general because they don't feel like they have as much punch to me. The P bass is my fav, has punch, and you can dial in some really nice lowend too. Thanks Jerome. I think I'm going to buy one. I don't have the money for an amp, but I've got a Fender Jazz bass and a REDDI. So, it will be fun to mess with the Sans Amp and see what I come up with along with the LA2A or 1176. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 0:38:34 GMT -6
Hi this is an area I have a lot of fun with.
Bass - It better be a jazz or P. No musicman nonsense I HATE those things with a seething passion, they make a sound that a bass guitar just shouldn't, too much top, deep lows, zero midrange and they just gross me out (feel free to scope my work and you'll get a general idea of what kinda stuff I do cause I don't doubt they could be useful for something, propping a door is the most likely application they'll find here). Never did I say it had to be Fender either, the Lakland stuff is killer, NYguitars makes a P/Jazz thing that I don't doubt is unreal.
Bass goes into a Splitter, one of those feeds a Sansamp, the Parallel out feeds an Ampeg, the DI out of the Ampeg goes into the DAW, the Cab gets mic'd up with a Beta 52 or whatever you think in your approximation is gonna be best. I've used a 421 here in the past and it captured some cool stuff. The other end of the splitter feeds the Kemper Profiler which is running a vintage B12 profile that sounds really cool and from the Kemper I take a completely clean DI into the DAW.
That leaves me in the DAW with:
Bass DI
Bass Ampeg Out
Bass B12 Profile
Bass Sansamp
Bass Cab Mic
Drums have been cut with less inputs, but this does leave just abouts every possible scenario covered. From the Ampeg DI out I can Slap a Cabsim over it, from the clean DI I can run into the BOD Sansamp Plugin, A Guitar Amp Sim for more grind, Reamp it through all of this stuff with different settings. Best way to handle 5 tracks of bass is to get a balance and just route them to a group and work with that. I typically hammer my bass tracks with the CLA2a, roll off sub lows and put it in the mix where I think it should go.
Also you may want to experiment with flat wound bass strings, it does make a big difference.
This is a scenario I don't do anymore because the B12 profile on the Kemper ended up accounting for all the bass tone when I did this. Make sure it's tuned up and played well. The rest is whatever your heart desires.
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Post by Ward on Apr 27, 2015 3:06:34 GMT -6
Hi this is an area I have a lot of fun with. Bass - It better be a jazz or P. No musicman nonsense I HATE those things with a seething passion, they make a sound that a bass guitar just shouldn't, too much top, deep lows, zero midrange and they just gross me out (feel free to scope my work and you'll get a general idea of what kinda stuff I do cause I don't doubt they could be useful for something, propping a door is the most likely application they'll find here). Never did I say it had to be Fender either, the Lakland stuff is killer, NYguitars makes a P/Jazz thing that I don't doubt is unreal.
Absolutely positively 100% WRONG. LOL!! Musicman with the EQ flat is infinitely recordable and fits into a mix perfectly. You have a 3 way toggle to choose coil configuration too. The 'rear' position is full of midrange. Check out my post in "Sky Vines" under "What are you working on". That was a musicman stingray.  |
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Post by EmRR on Apr 27, 2015 6:34:12 GMT -6
I have a Telecaster bass with humbucker, and a Rick 4001. The Rick has flats on it, sounds as intended and much easier to manipulate sonically. It can sound better into something like a Bag End cabinet, to maximize the fundamental. The Tele is a dark fat pig, likes rounds and the Sunn cabinet I mentioned above. Strongest fundamental I've ever owned in a bass with nothing lacking anywhere else either.
You can't really play a Fender part with correct feel on a Rick. It's just counterintuitive, and an uphill battle. True in the other direction. The instrument dictates the playing approach to a degree. The Rick intents much better than the Fender, seems to also like E detuning down to C# far more than the Fender. All these little things make a difference.
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Post by svart on Apr 27, 2015 6:53:57 GMT -6
Hi this is an area I have a lot of fun with. Bass - It better be a jazz or P. No musicman nonsense I HATE those things with a seething passion, they make a sound that a bass guitar just shouldn't, too much top, deep lows, zero midrange and they just gross me out (feel free to scope my work and you'll get a general idea of what kinda stuff I do cause I don't doubt they could be useful for something, propping a door is the most likely application they'll find here). Never did I say it had to be Fender either, the Lakland stuff is killer, NYguitars makes a P/Jazz thing that I don't doubt is unreal.
Absolutely positively 100% WRONG. LOL!! Musicman with the EQ flat is infinitely recordable and fits into a mix perfectly. You have a 3 way toggle to choose coil configuration too. The 'rear' position is full of midrange. Check out my post in "Sky Vines" under "What are you working on". That was a musicman stingray. Gotta agree with you Ward, A musicman that is set up well and has it's settings right sounds killer in just about anything. I'm recording one right now and it's sitting just right in a 3 piece rock band scenario. However, when they are not set correctly for the song, they can sound extremely out of place, and bass players are notoriously picky about "their tone", which usually means they want the amp turned up and the bass knob maxed out until the fillings are falling out of your teeth. I always make the bass player and the guitarist do some "warm up" while I listen and see if the tones fit, if not I usually get the bass player to adjust his tones first until they fit together. |
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Post by Ward on Apr 27, 2015 6:56:56 GMT -6
Absolutely positively 100% WRONG. LOL!! Musicman with the EQ flat is infinitely recordable and fits into a mix perfectly. You have a 3 way toggle to choose coil configuration too. The 'rear' position is full of midrange. Check out my post in "Sky Vines" under "What are you working on". That was a musicman stingray. Gotta agree with you Ward, A musicman that is set up well and has it's settings right sounds killer in just about anything. I'm recording one right now and it's sitting just right in a 3 piece rock band scenario. However, when they are not set correctly for the song, they can sound extremely out of place, and bass players are notoriously picky about "their tone", which usually means they want the amp turned up and the bass knob maxed out until the fillings are falling out of your teeth. I always make the bass player and the guitarist do some "warm up" while I listen and see if the tones fit, if not I usually get the bass player to adjust his tones first until they fit together. And that is why you are 'The Svart'. A very svart man who does svart things to get svarter results from your recordings.  |
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Post by svart on Apr 27, 2015 6:59:51 GMT -6
Gotta agree with you Ward, A musicman that is set up well and has it's settings right sounds killer in just about anything. I'm recording one right now and it's sitting just right in a 3 piece rock band scenario. However, when they are not set correctly for the song, they can sound extremely out of place, and bass players are notoriously picky about "their tone", which usually means they want the amp turned up and the bass knob maxed out until the fillings are falling out of your teeth. I always make the bass player and the guitarist do some "warm up" while I listen and see if the tones fit, if not I usually get the bass player to adjust his tones first until they fit together. And that is why you are 'The Svart'. A very svart man who does svart things to get svarter results from your recordings. lol, you almost got coffee out of my nose on that one. |
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Post by warrenfirehouse on Apr 27, 2015 8:08:58 GMT -6
Tracked a 70's musicman a couple of weeks ago with a great bass player with only DI. Sounded beautiful to me. But then again I love the musicman sound, and also the warwick sound so what do I know. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 8:45:26 GMT -6
Hm, so far i like MusicMan sound also and can't find real obstacles to get something useful out of it.
What i really am struggling with are Warwick sounds. For my taste they have too little punch, a tonal quality that makes it hard to fit them in a mix, like they only sound good soloed. Like a bass for bass players who don't want to be heard in a band, LOL.
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Post by jimwilliams on Apr 27, 2015 9:08:17 GMT -6
Having recorded electric bass since 1970, I've tried most of the methods listed here. Having built custom basses with Rex Bogue back in the 1970's I found it's a full range instrument in the right hands. Some go up past 30k hz in bandwidth. These days there are folks playing multi-string "basses" with a larger note range than a pipe organ, 15 hz up to about 4k hz. The harmonics go up to 50k hz.
I plug them in direct. Usually it's an active intrument so I don't use DI's in the studio. Gain staging the signal down to -40 dbu and then jacking it back up to +10 dbu will cause losses. A 2.2 meg ohm input impedance active line gain stage will raise my levels up on a passive bass without loading down the top end.
Usually I don't use EQ. Sometimes if the style demands it I'll raise up some tops. I did that on a live gig with Brian Bromberg, he has a really full range, almost acoustic top end sounding bass, very crisp, I added a little 20k hz to liven that up as it's his thing.
I like a solid 40 hz on electric bass. I realize bass is not as deep or full as it used to be on commercial releases, but that's a sonic fashion change as the kick gets all the low end on mixes these days. I used to be concerned cutting vinyl, but not since CD's came out. I like a deep, full bass that bounces off the kick with neither one being dominate.
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Post by Ward on Apr 27, 2015 10:03:03 GMT -6
Since we're looking for bass tips and tricks for recording... here's one outside of gear:
Don't make the kick and bass too tight!! Try to have the bass attack just AFTER the kick attack and they will 'seat' nicely together and be like glue in the low-end department. You can move all the notes in PT (or other DAW) accordingly of course. It might take you an hour a song to do so, but boy howdy, it sure works wonders.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 11:05:40 GMT -6
Hi this is an area I have a lot of fun with. Bass - It better be a jazz or P. No musicman nonsense I HATE those things with a seething passion, they make a sound that a bass guitar just shouldn't, too much top, deep lows, zero midrange and they just gross me out (feel free to scope my work and you'll get a general idea of what kinda stuff I do cause I don't doubt they could be useful for something, propping a door is the most likely application they'll find here). Never did I say it had to be Fender either, the Lakland stuff is killer, NYguitars makes a P/Jazz thing that I don't doubt is unreal.
Absolutely positively 100% WRONG. LOL!! Musicman with the EQ flat is infinitely recordable and fits into a mix perfectly. You have a 3 way toggle to choose coil configuration too. The 'rear' position is full of midrange. Check out my post in "Sky Vines" under "What are you working on". That was a musicman stingray. I'm gonna plug my ears and say I'm not listening LALALALALALALALALALALALA
Seriously though my experiences with those things have been dreadful
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Post by warrenfirehouse on Apr 27, 2015 12:20:26 GMT -6
Hm, so far i like MusicMan sound also and can't find real obstacles to get something useful out of it. What i really am struggling with are Warwick sounds. For my taste they have too little punch, a tonal quality that makes it hard to fit them in a mix, like they only sound good soloed. Like a bass for bass players who don't want to be heard in a band, LOL. I grew up playing heavy rock/metal/hardcore. Wall of guitars kind of stuff. warwicks work well when the bass is a lower extension of the guitars. I could def see them not working in a mix where you want to "hear" the bass more. but thats what fenders are for! I just always liked the woody tone around 1k on a warwick, sounds cool with heavy stuff. I used to tell my bass player his tone sounded like he was smacking his pecker against a tree! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 14:34:57 GMT -6
Ha,
another interesting view! That's what i didn't like about alot of modern heavy rock/metal stuff! Basses sounding like "just" a guitar extension. And i really am into hard stuff and metal. I see that many people tend to like it this way, but it seems to be just not my personal taste....
Like you explain it, it certainly makes quite some more sense to me....
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Post by jeromemason on Apr 27, 2015 16:49:51 GMT -6
I think a lot of it depends on what you're recording...... I don't really like the Warwick sound because I'm involved in 96% Country music. Back in the day when I did more pop stuff and R&B that's what most of those guys played and they were good for that music, just not a lot of punch, but it wasn't really needed though. They did have this growl happening in the low low register that not many other guitars could touch, so, depending on what you're tracking who's to say what will and won't work. I've just never been able to get those types of basses to have any heft or punch, just kind of a flat sound.
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