251 Type Mic - Quest

...too bad we can't get the 251 clone that Shannon just finished working on for me in the same room with those two serious contenders for a proper shootout...

Don't forget to try the 241 with and without the switch engaged

From manual
" The 241 has a unique 'HF cut' switch, which allows the user to
effect a gentle rolloff of highs starting at 5kHz, ending with a 1dB cut @ 10kHz. "

As to the OP's question, all these CK12 type mics sound good/great.

Bock 251 and 241 - doesn't sound exactly like the 251 in cardioid, according to David Bock 241 doesn't go down as low, midrange not as detailed. Also it sounds to me like the top end resonance is a little different. Then you have the really expensive reissue telefunken, and Josephson C716/700A/700S. I've not heard the Flea/Campbell mics.

But none will sound like the vintage ELAM, for reasons discussed by Klaus Heyne here

www.gearslutz.com/board/7472874-post65.html

That said, they are all great mics. As the OP mentioned, it's also about client perception vs personal sound aesthetic. Bock 251, Josephson C700a, and Telefunken all impressive looking to anyone. 

Personally, what I listen for in a capsule is how well the highs are integrated into the rest of the sound, how sweet they are, and whether the midrange is consistent and even.
Because the best capsules and vintage mics tend to have this quality. The Josephson capsule (and their mics in general) seems to do the integrated highs thing the best. But the C716 lacks a tube and the large core output transformer design of the Bock mics and the vibier Josephson C715 (darker C37 type capsule with large nickel core Lundahl ). So it's cleaner sounding, but I think the top end response is the smoothest I've heard. Paired with a 1073/tube compressor, who knows how good it would sound.

www.gearslutz.com/board/7350373-post25.html

I think the Bock mics have a kind of airy pop quality that sits on top of the main sound.
Whereas the vintage CK12 mics don't do this really. To me, the midrange in the vintage mics more softly transitions into a less open top end.
David Bock himself has said that his CK12 type capsule is tuned to sound bigger and flatter in midrange, the lows with large core output transformer, as opposed to vintage ELAM's small core. The amp is the same. The capsule is not.

In any case, the Bock 241 is interesting.

In this comparison I sort of prefer the top end resonance of the 251 but like the roll off switch of the 241.
Too bad there is no 251 with switch.

www.transaudiogroup.com/241-vs-251

The reissue telefunken is very expensive, and also doesn't sound as sweet as the vintage ones. Not the same capsule.
Think for that kind of money I'd rather get a real U67 or BOTH the Bock 241 and the Josephson C715 (the C37 type).

But the Bock 251 has the model recognition with big stars that one can point to with superficial clients without the caveat that it's merely a reissue.

VK's prices are outrageous.


Even so, if I had a pro studio with extra money, I'd want a vintage mic vetted by someone like them, since their name has cachet = value.

I agree Kidvybes.. if it sounds good, it's good. Unfortunately, like you said above, I really don't have a way to 'Test' out some of the mics out there to see if they sound good, prior to committing. I could always purchase one and take that risk based on spec and what folks say, however, if it's not something that works for my situation, then I feel I may struggle to re-sell it for a similar price (at least at this point). I trust Shannons work, as Ive heard nothing but great things so far, but to me, it's about the hardware as well and build quality that he gets his hands on. It's a bummer because I could even try to catch a flight to Nashville but my environment also plays a role in what I do and my chains do. Either way, I am still weighing out all the options and feel that the more informed and educated I am in regards to the items, the better by decisions will be. Good things that come out of that is if I take that approach, i'd be the first person to post it all over every other forums out there  

I did a Bock vs Sony shoot out on the LCDs last night. Male vocal (same guy in the video). I did it through the following chain combos (1073DPA, V76/s, CL1B, MC76) and to both the singer and my ears (a-capella and with electric guitar), I'd say Bock and Sony were neck and neck in terms of quality, with one standing out more in verses and the other in choruses or certain words. The bock had a silky airiness to it whilst sony has it's traditional sibilance. To our ears, the CL1B stood out over MC76 in this instance and the V76 was big and buttery. However, for me, buying a Bock I don't feel will raise my quality significantly. I am yet to try the T-Funk 251 but will keep you posted. Also note that to me, the built of Bock was cool, nothing extraordinary. The Sony is built like a tank and so is even a AKG C12VR. I do not hear that natural mid range boost that say a Jason Mraz (I'm Yours) recording has, which is a vintage 251. Either way, journey continues.

Are you with cj1973 checking these out?

I am very serious about building an ELAM 251. I have a couple mics being worked on right now, capsule replacements, and possibly some tweaks after...waiting to get them back...don't want to go into details this is Elam251 country!!! Bring it, big and phat, with air and a little hair!  Just having some fun, all this talk about the 251 just brings out the adolescence in me.  Mics are very personal to me.  Drums are drums, I am a drummer/singer, guitars are guitars, but great microphones are like hearing the soul of a person, very personal.  Not that I don't love guitars and other various instruments...until I get this 251, and done right...Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head!