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Post by sll on Mar 15, 2015 12:52:05 GMT -6
I finally got to play in the studio today.  I made some quick comparisons of the SDCs I have, well the KM84 is not mine unfortunately. Anyway, these are not meant to be a shootout and is not uber-scientific. I set levels quickly and they don't match exactly. I wanted to just get an overview of the tone of each mic. As best I could, I changed out each mic on the same stand and had it in the same location. I also tried to sit in the same spot with the guitar. Not always easy to do. The mics all went into the same preamp, a Buzz Audio MA.2 rack mount unit (my favorite for acoustic guitar, very fast yet still has some character to it). The guitar is my latest build, a D-18 style vintage bracing pattern, engelmann spruce top, sapele back and sides. French polished shellac for finish. I hope this is useful to at least get an idea of the differences in the mics. Any of these would yield great results, especially if specific placement is utilized to enhance or hide strengths and weaknesses. I have my favorite, but I don't own it. So the quest continues. https%3A//soundcloud.com/sliebers/km84https%3A//soundcloud.com/sliebers/gefell-m300https%3A//soundcloud.com/sliebers/oktava-mk012https%3A//soundcloud.com/sliebers/beezneez-luluhttps%3A//soundcloud.com/sliebers/akg-452 |
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 15, 2015 13:21:56 GMT -6
I finally got to play in the studio today. I made some quick comparisons of the SDCs I have, well the KM84 is not mine unfortunately. Anyway, these are not meant to be a shootout and is not uber-scientific. I set levels quickly and they don't match exactly. I wanted to just get an overview of the tone of each mic. As best I could, I changed out each mic on the same stand and had it in the same location. I also tried to sit in the same spot with the guitar. Not always easy to do. The mics all went into the same preamp, a Buzz Audio MA.2 rack mount unit (my favorite for acoustic guitar, very fast yet still has some character to it). The guitar is my latest build, a D-18 style vintage bracing pattern, engelmann spruce top, sapele back and sides. French polished shellac for finish. I hope this is useful to at least get an idea of the differences in the mics. Any of these would yield great results, especially if specific placement is utilized to enhance or hide strengths and weaknesses. I have my favorite, but I don't own it. So the quest continues. soundcloud.com/sliebers/km84soundcloud.com/sliebers/gefell-m300soundcloud.com/sliebers/oktava-mk012soundcloud.com/sliebers/beezneez-lulusoundcloud.com/sliebers/akg-452Cool! Scott! first, excellent playing, excellent! sounding ACgtr, and thanx for doing this 8) My fav was this order, and the diff between 1st and the rest was LARGE 1. KM84= open upper midrange and the texture is killer 2. Akg452=nice smoothness. 3. tie between the m300 and mk012, they didn't sound as open as 1,2 5. BN=more hooded than the M300 and MK012d This 84 sounds like wiz's 84, very nice indeed, sounds like it would fit very nicely into a busy mix. thanx again Scott, a guitar like the one you built there would go amazingly well with the scooped pretty sound of my taylor, how much to get you to build one for me? 8) |
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Post by sll on Mar 15, 2015 13:55:33 GMT -6
Thanks Tony,
I would agree with your findings. There's just something magical about the midrange of the KM84. I want to not like it, but I can't. 452s are classics too. A little bright, but they can be used to texture in a guitar part very nicely in a dense mix.
I had all these mics about 2 feet away. The m300 does better at further distances.
My modded Oktava has some similarities to a KM84, but the low end is too much bloom. The midrange and top is not as smooth either.
If you are serious, we can talk about building a guitar. I'd give you an RGO member discount!
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 15, 2015 14:06:26 GMT -6
Haven't had a chance to listen just yet...but what's the difference in an AKG 451 and 452? I've had a 451 and I remember it be really good, but bright.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2015 14:23:04 GMT -6
Haven't had a chance to listen just yet...but what's the difference in an AKG 451 and 452? I've had a 451 and I remember it be really good, but bright. Akg 451 9-48 volt phantom AKG 452 needs full 48 Volt phantom! |
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Post by sll on Mar 15, 2015 14:24:18 GMT -6
I think the only difference is the phantom power requirement? The 452 can run from 9-48V I think the 451 was only 48V? I could be wrong on that though. Also, the body length of the 451 is slightly shorter. I have a 451 body and I have put the CK-1 capsule on it to compare. I notice no difference in sound.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2015 14:24:25 GMT -6
My Wife keeps telling me I remember the most inane and is smiley trivial things!
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Post by sll on Mar 15, 2015 14:25:24 GMT -6
Haven't had a chance to listen just yet...but what's the difference in an AKG 451 and 452? I've had a 451 and I remember it be really good, but bright. Akg 451 9-48 volt phantom AKG 452 needs full 48 Volt phantom! There ya go. I had it backwards. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 15, 2015 14:30:10 GMT -6
Thanks Tony, I would agree with your findings. There's just something magical about the midrange of the KM84. I want to not like it, but I can't. 452s are classics too. A little bright, but they can be used to texture in a guitar part very nicely in a dense mix. I had all these mics about 2 feet away. The m300 does better at further distances. My modded Oktava has some similarities to a KM84, but the low end is too much bloom. The midrange and top is not as smooth either. If you are serious, we can talk about building a guitar. I'd give you an RGO member discount! It will have to be down the road a bit, but I'm interested for sure, the tone is great, but notably the intonation up and down the neck sounds very good indeed! Also, i wonder if sinsay could reskin the MK012 differently to get rid of the low end bloom that you accurately described? |
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Post by sll on Mar 15, 2015 14:47:27 GMT -6
Sounds good to me Tony. I'm slow as molasses anyway. Too many projects all the time. You can relate I'm sure. I'm a stickler for intonation. I've had guitars in the past that were off a little. Had to get rid of them.
I wonder about the Oktava reskin too? If Sinsay starts making KM84 style capsules, that might be a perfect body to put one on?
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2015 16:06:50 GMT -6
If we can get Sinsay to get the capsule right we need somebody to get the transformer right!
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Post by wiz on Mar 15, 2015 16:18:40 GMT -6
This is why I own a KM84
8)
sure.. the other mics are cool.. and test variables and all that...
But there is something about a KM84.....thats just right.. in my ears anyways.
great test... thanks for doing that.. these things take a lot of time to do..
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 15, 2015 17:19:40 GMT -6
And yet another sign...
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 15, 2015 17:48:34 GMT -6
If we can get Sinsay to get the capsule right we need somebody to get the transformer right! and then it's just as expensive as a KM84 8( |
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Post by jdc on Mar 15, 2015 21:05:22 GMT -6
thank you for doing this! I know it's not super scientific, but it's helpful to those of us that haven't had the chance to sit down with all of these mics and get at least a feel for their general characteristics. also your guitar chops are quite clean, I appreciate that just as much!
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Post by sopwith on Mar 16, 2015 15:56:29 GMT -6
Guitar sounds phenomenal and so do the mics! Damn, why does the 84 always have to stand out as the best?? No matter how many shootouts I hear, just hoping that something else (cheaper) takes the cake, the 84 is always the pick of the litter.
Also love the Buzz pre's, so lucky to have Tim down the street from me! Agreed that they are incredibly sweet on acoustic.
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Post by Ward on Mar 16, 2015 22:15:17 GMT -6
I could listen to that Gefell M300 all day long.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 17, 2015 9:14:11 GMT -6
Great post, thanks. I like the Neumann and the Geffell. The Neumann has a "you are there" quality, but still adds some depth and character. The Geffell has a slightly melancholy vibe, which is amazing, a slight sustain.
I borrowed a Neumann K84 for a few tracks last summer, and man, I could use that thing forever and not feel like I needed to look elsewhere.
The Geffell has more low end, and in a way, is closer to the K84 than the KM84. The K84 has a little more low end than the KM version. I could live with any of those mics, quite happily.
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Post by svart on Mar 17, 2015 9:23:18 GMT -6
1. KM84.. Still the king.
2. M300.. Just a tad scooped compared to the KM84, but seems to have more articulation.
And the rest..
MK012.. Woofy bottom end. This is one thing that modding never gets rid of in the MK012 and one thing I just realized is not for me.
Lulu.. Somewhat "just there". Nothing really jumps out, but that's both a good and bad thing.
452.. Very mid heavy, not my cup of tea at all.
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I made some quick comparisons of the SDCs I have, well the KM84 is not mine unfortunately.
