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Post by nobtwiddler on Mar 7, 2015 18:56:30 GMT -6
How many times to I have to tell you guys,
BUY A RADAR, and a small console, (mixer) and be done with this BULLSHIT once and for all.
Sorry...
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 7, 2015 18:57:37 GMT -6
JK I understand you point and this is the REALLY insidious thing about the dumbscription service, how the legal language of the new agreement will probably completely limit your rights as a consumer of a software (intangible) product.
Currently European law is advanced of US ( North american) law , as it is more recognizing that we as consumers do pay real money for something ( good/service) and the idea that the company can solely dictate through its concept of "licence' our rights as completely limited is less supported in Europe. In fact quite the opposite and European law is trying to strengthen consumer rights not weaken them further.
I am very confident that when the language of these new user agreements sees the light of day, we will clearly see that the that the company's rights will be strengthened and the consumers' weakened: dumbscriptions services are essentially a time limited rental contract and a cumulatively expensive one at that.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 7, 2015 19:08:30 GMT -6
V10 to V11 to V12 to V13 are not updates. Each is an upgrade to new features. Their new development model is introducing new features far more frequently rather than one big new upgrade set every few years. It's a different way of doing business that has no real relationship to the past. understood, but if I decide to hang out on v11 for 2 years, and then want to make the jump to v13, shouldn't i at the very least have the right to pay across v12 @ $398.00 instead of being forced to start over at $899.00? Unless i'm grossly mis reading something? this later is exactly the case, It's like penalizing me for being satisfied with their product in a way. And like JK stated, if this shift sets up a new paradigm for these guys, it's going to push everyone OTB! Several hundred dollars a month will get you into a killer hardware rig... So i say more power to em lol. the only other thing i may consider is partnering up with someone on a pair of iloks, then we can split the costs every year, if someone with PTHD is interested in doing this, let me know and i'll consider paying 1/2 the annual fee's, i have the waves platinum bundle and a bunch of other plugs to bring to the table as well 8) Considering HD8 to HD11/12 will cost me $1599 I see the yearly thing as a bargain ! |
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 7, 2015 19:46:23 GMT -6
understood, but if I decide to hang out on v11 for 2 years, and then want to make the jump to v13, shouldn't i at the very least have the right to pay across v12 @ $398.00 instead of being forced to start over at $899.00? Unless i'm grossly mis reading something? this later is exactly the case, It's like penalizing me for being satisfied with their product in a way. And like JK stated, if this shift sets up a new paradigm for these guys, it's going to push everyone OTB! Several hundred dollars a month will get you into a killer hardware rig... So i say more power to em lol. the only other thing i may consider is partnering up with someone on a pair of iloks, then we can split the costs every year, if someone with PTHD is interested in doing this, let me know and i'll consider paying 1/2 the annual fee's, i have the waves platinum bundle and a bunch of other plugs to bring to the table as well 8) Isn't that stealing the software? absolutely not. This is called 50/50 partnership, a simple splitting of costs to make something un viable, viable. We are both paying to put on 2 machines(i believe this is the rule anyway) |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 7, 2015 19:58:12 GMT -6
Well, maybe it would be stealing in the past, but our consumer terms of service has changed.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 7, 2015 23:01:53 GMT -6
Isn't that stealing the software? absolutely not. This is called 50/50 partnership, a simple splitting of costs to make something un viable, viable. We are both paying to put on 2 machines(i believe this is the rule anyway) Can you really run PT on two machines? If so, I need a second iLok. |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Mar 8, 2015 0:38:44 GMT -6
Good luck duplicating the license.
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 8, 2015 0:47:57 GMT -6
absolutely not. This is called 50/50 partnership, a simple splitting of costs to make something un viable, viable. We are both paying to put on 2 machines(i believe this is the rule anyway) Can you really run PT on two machines? If so, I need a second iLok. i did more research on this, i was wrong, i could swear i remembered having 2 iloks at one time..., oh well, i guess i'll keep the plan to dump avid  |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Mar 8, 2015 1:41:24 GMT -6
Prior to PT9 you got a backup HD authorization.
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Post by zaiata on Mar 8, 2015 18:49:04 GMT -6
I just moved to Logic/Symphony.... Will upgrade when I decide to upgrade. Avid can do whatever they want. Choices.... we have choices.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 30, 2015 8:07:02 GMT -6
It's called a loss leader in the business world. It's the same principle as getting a "free" cell phone with a 2 year contract. Once they entice you into the contract with a "free" phone, you are essentially overpaying for the phone and service for years. They make more money in the long run this way. Same thing, Avid is giving away their software to lock you into using it before they go full "subcription" service. They make more money in the long run from losing a little money up front as you keep paying year over year. They also get the added benefit of having a more steady income stream rather than piecemeal income from random sales. Ill make a deal I won't pretend to know converter design, you don't pretend to understand the workings of the pro audio industry, This is a clearance or dump of product. ALTO and AVID can't just suddenly lose money on a product, It would violate their MAP agreement, and then dealers would have free reign as far as Advertised price of all AVID items, the exception is a Clearance. I'm sure They shopped this deal and ALTO bit! This is probably the last pallet or 2. With early pay freight this will only generate $100K- 200k for AVID. I was going to grab an educational lic but I like this deal, note they say 10,11 and 12 ! So no surrendering of 10,11 for 12 (and I will hold AVID and ALTO to this)! |
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Post by tasteliketape on Mar 30, 2015 8:22:28 GMT -6
Seems. To good to be true that's why i originally ask this question Sweet water has similar deal but doesn't seem.as good as this one
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Post by svart on Mar 30, 2015 8:49:37 GMT -6
It's called a loss leader in the business world. It's the same principle as getting a "free" cell phone with a 2 year contract. Once they entice you into the contract with a "free" phone, you are essentially overpaying for the phone and service for years. They make more money in the long run this way. Same thing, Avid is giving away their software to lock you into using it before they go full "subcription" service. They make more money in the long run from losing a little money up front as you keep paying year over year. They also get the added benefit of having a more steady income stream rather than piecemeal income from random sales. Ill make a deal I won't pretend to know converter design, you don't pretend to understand the workings of the pro audio industry, This is a clearance or dump of product. ALTO and AVID can't just suddenly lose money on a product, It would violate their MAP agreement, and then dealers would have free reign as far as Advertised price of all AVID items, the exception is a Clearance. I'm sure They shopped this deal and ALTO bit! This is probably the last pallet or 2. With early pay freight this will only generate $100K- 200k for AVID. I was going to grab an educational lic but I like this deal, note they say 10,11 and 12 ! So no surrendering of 10,11 for 12 (and I will hold AVID and ALTO to this)! lol, ok, I hear what you are saying.. But I've worked for companies that have done this many times both with hardware and with software. You sell a product at less than COGS (cost of goods sold) and take a loss on it simply to get the customer locked into your products. Once you have them using your product, you initiate something like what is happening here, either ongoing fees of some kind (sometimes called "support" or "subscription") or you later sell them features that they probably needed to begin with, at much higher rates than they would have been OK with in the beginning. Alto isn't taking a hit, Avid is taking the hit and probably compensating Alto for it, just like cell phone manufacturers do for companies like ATT or verizon. Do you think ATT or Verizon give you that phone for free just because they like you? No, they do so to lock you into a contract where you'll end up paying more over time than you would if you had just bought the phone outright. I've also been a victim of this kind of thing with the design software I use daily. About 15 years ago all design software was one time purchase. You bought it, you owned it. You bought the newer version only if you needed it. Maybe 10 years ago these design software companies started shifting into the ongoing-maintenance type of license. You no longer "owned" the software, but simply leased it from the company who wrote it. Now you paid a yearly fee to keep using it. One such program offered us a "last buy" to use the program for 2 years and then the license expired. Once it did, we inquired about getting a new one and the company informed us that they would have to charge us back "maintenance" for the years we did not pay the annual fee. They wanted 24K$ to issue us a new license plus the back fees for a single seat license for this one program. This was almost double what a new license cost and about 8X the cost of yearly support fees. You can expect more and more extortion like this to happen, as it's happened to EVERY piece of professional software I use in my day-to-day job over the last 10 years. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 30, 2015 10:01:07 GMT -6
Ill make a deal I won't pretend to know converter design, you don't pretend to understand the workings of the pro audio industry, This is a clearance or dump of product. ALTO and AVID can't just suddenly lose money on a product, It would violate their MAP agreement, and then dealers would have free reign as far as Advertised price of all AVID items, the exception is a Clearance. I'm sure They shopped this deal and ALTO bit! This is probably the last pallet or 2. With early pay freight this will only generate $100K- 200k for AVID. I was going to grab an educational lic but I like this deal, note they say 10,11 and 12 ! So no surrendering of 10,11 for 12 (and I will hold AVID and ALTO to this)! lol, ok, I hear what you are saying.. But I've worked for companies that have done this many times both with hardware and with software. You sell a product at less than COGS (cost of goods sold) and take a loss on it simply to get the customer locked into your products. Once you have them using your product, you initiate something like what is happening here, either ongoing fees of some kind (sometimes called "support" or "subscription") or you later sell them features that they probably needed to begin with, at much higher rates than they would have been OK with in the beginning. Alto isn't taking a hit, Avid is taking the hit and probably compensating Alto for it, just like cell phone manufacturers do for companies like ATT or verizon. Do you think ATT or Verizon give you that phone for free just because they like you? No, they do so to lock you into a contract where you'll end up paying more over time than you would if you had just bought the phone outright. I've also been a victim of this kind of thing with the design software I use daily. About 15 years ago all design software was one time purchase. You bought it, you owned it. You bought the newer version only if you needed it. Maybe 10 years ago these design software companies started shifting into the ongoing-maintenance type of license. You no longer "owned" the software, but simply leased it from the company who wrote it. Now you paid a yearly fee to keep using it. One such program offered us a "last buy" to use the program for 2 years and then the license expired. Once it did, we inquired about getting a new one and the company informed us that they would have to charge us back "maintenance" for the years we did not pay the annual fee. They wanted 24K$ to issue us a new license plus the back fees for a single seat license for this one program. This was almost double what a new license cost and about 8X the cost of yearly support fees. You can expect more and more extortion like this to happen, as it's happened to EVERY piece of professional software I use in my day-to-day job over the last 10 years. AViD cant dump ! They are just has tied by MAP! There buisness model is based on controlling PRICE ! They won't blow their own MAP! They cut price to one Dealer THEY ARE DONE! the True margains are just too low! Every dealer in the country would demand the price ALTO got ! On new stock and what's on the shelf ! PLUS AVID cant afford to devalue there inventory ! Their stock is low enough ! The only way they can do this on these is if they Are Discontinuing the Package! Loss leaders exist in some industries, but not in pro audio since MAP! Think about this every body is walking into GC demanding a price match ! Or if they are smart buying it and then saying I want my match plus 10%, unless iTs DC' ed GC has to match! Every GC manager would be calling his DM and he's calling AVID ! Now think of every other Dealer ! GC MF is broke but still the biggest fish ! MAP Minimum Advertised Price means I as a dealer Can't Print or publish a price on line or in print a lower price, I can sell it for what ever I just can't advertise a lower price. If I as a dealer find someone breaking MAP the Manufacturer must cut the dealer or MAP is gone for everybody Everybody but GC figured out in the days of free shipping and the Internet everybody but GC/ MF figured out loss leaders are stupid the customer has no problem buying piece meal across multiple dealers, so if your going to cut a deal give the deal across the board or as a package discount. Also most commission schedules are set up so a below cost deal is a huge - on the salesman. GC thought private branded loss leaders where the solution to MAP they learned the hard way! Look you know your stuff but this industry I know better than most, not to brag but I'm the guy the CEO of one of the Top dealers once said " you know more about everything we do than anybody in this buisness.". If AVID is doing what I think they are they are realizeing the true cost of the lowend isn't worth it, or if you want consumer market you have to bring something new out as close to yearly as you can! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 30, 2015 10:49:24 GMT -6
A Dealer just confirmed Fast Track with regular PT discontinued now only with PT Express , crippled cripple ware but $150! May soon be seen at Walmart !
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 30, 2015 14:29:20 GMT -6
Like a drug dealer giving you the first bag of meth free.
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