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Post by lolo on Feb 19, 2015 2:24:33 GMT -6
Hi Fellas, My head is spinning here.
This is the straight forward part .Currently I have a pair of VP28's, Purple Audio Lilpeqr's and Wooly Mammoth deluxe on my Master Fader (Cubase). might add a compressor later. Like the results. added mojo etc... have this setup as a external plugin.
Got me thinking....Would it make any difference if I send my whole mix through that chain instead of having it setup as a external plugin. DA - Hardware Chain - AD? Sound better? But this is what do my head in a bit (songwriter brain). So this is what im thinking. send all the track to a group... (eg master fader) routing the master fader out to 2 buss chain and then back into a new stereo track. Still monitoring the main stereo out though? do you have to record that track back? also what if you want to add extra plugins on the stereo buss . Do you put it on the main stereo buss(which I am monitoring through) or on the printed track?
 Or I should just keep things the way they are!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Feb 19, 2015 9:24:32 GMT -6
Try it but honestly I think your going to find that it's just routing and no real sonic change.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 19, 2015 17:47:29 GMT -6
I mix with VCC (on the master too) and then route out to the Burl via another output - and then record into the session...Then I take that audio track and go into the master channel and apply effects there.
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Post by drbill on Feb 19, 2015 19:24:46 GMT -6
IMO - IDEALLY - not everything needs the same processing. Some things need to be hit harder, some less hard, some might like a heavier neve processing, some might want a punchier API sound, some might want tubes.... The magic is in how you drive the components in your mix/tracking bus and how you gain stage. I used to have a similar setup to Lolo, but I've refined it and moved on to the Silver Bullet because of the flexibility it allows in driving signals to their sweet spot. (Shameless plug notated) Generally I do this on the way in. BUT - I don't always cut the tracks I'm mixing.
Your connundrum is the exact reason why Brad M and I came up with the Silver Bullet and why we worked hard to make it's workflow routing so flexible. It's workflow allows you to process individual elements and/or the mix bus and flip back and forth without repatching anything. IMO, It's the perfect solution. But I am just a tad bit biased.... heh
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Post by lolo on Feb 19, 2015 22:04:41 GMT -6
Yeah the Silver Bullet sure looks interesting. Esp for what I am doing. Looking forward to clips and vid's when its available.
Screw this. Just going to try to route out on my next mix and see if there is a difference. sonically vs using the outboard chain as an external plugin.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 20, 2015 9:33:23 GMT -6
Let us know what you find --- I've been using vp28 pair and sb4001 as plugins in cubase 6.
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mca
Full Member
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Post by mca on Feb 24, 2015 17:45:17 GMT -6
Hey Laurence!
At my place, I use the Wooly Mammoth on insert (external plugin) for raw track and bus duties, and for stereo bus work I generally have it set up similar your second option. (Like Dr Bill's silver bullet, the concept of the Wooly Mammoth was to be versatile enough to be used at the tracking, mixing, and stereo bus). Hit it hard for more flavor and dial it back to a usable level on the output before you go back to A/D. The stereo stepped output attenuator is the same one used in my controllers and the upcoming tube summing console, and is made to attenuate super clean (dale 1% resistors for true stereo imaging all the way down). Realistically, if you aren't using different convertors for you master bus vs hardware insert points, I don't think the sound is going to vary. Just a matter of smoothest workflow for you. I would say throw the VP28's in front of the Mammoth and try pushing some more gain if desired, then use the W.M.'s output to back the volume down before the A/D.
Also Laurence (and any other customers) stay tuned for some upgrades to the Wooly Mammoth Deluxe. There will be a new version coming out soon and as a thank you to existing Deluxe customers, I will be offering a heavily discounted full mod to existing units. There will soon be a full tube stage, as well as the addition of a full preamp to the unit and an will also include a new version of the H.I.L.G.A. DI. Basically making the unit even more versatile than it already is. Has been in the works for a while but I've been so busy I couldn't get the final versions done. I'll be devoting some time to them later this month and the new silkscreen are being finished next week. The new products (and mods) should all be ready for order early to mid March. Still working out a couple details on the new "triode" mode and preamp for the Wooly Mammoth and new summing console, but it's just about there.
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Post by lolo on Feb 25, 2015 8:15:10 GMT -6
Hey Laurence! At my place, I use the Wooly Mammoth on insert (external plugin) for raw track and bus duties, and for stereo bus work I generally have it set up similar your second option. (Like Dr Bill's silver bullet, the concept of the Wooly Mammoth was to be versatile enough to be used at the tracking, mixing, and stereo bus). Hit it hard for more flavor and dial it back to a usable level on the output before you go back to A/D. The stereo stepped output attenuator is the same one used in my controllers and the upcoming tube summing console, and is made to attenuate super clean (dale 1% resistors for true stereo imaging all the way down). Realistically, if you aren't using different convertors for you master bus vs hardware insert points, I don't think the sound is going to vary. Just a matter of smoothest workflow for you. I would say throw the VP28's in front of the Mammoth and try pushing some more gain if desired, then use the W.M.'s output to back the volume down before the A/D. Also Laurence (and any other customers) stay tuned for some upgrades to the Wooly Mammoth Deluxe. There will be a new version coming out soon and as a thank you to existing Deluxe customers, I will be offering a heavily discounted full mod to existing units. There will soon be a full tube stage, as well as the addition of a full preamp to the unit and an will also include a new version of the H.I.L.G.A. DI. Basically making the unit even more versatile than it already is. Has been in the works for a while but I've been so busy I couldn't get the final versions done. I'll be devoting some time to them later this month and the new silkscreen are being finished next week. The new products (and mods) should all be ready for order early to mid March. Still working out a couple details on the new "triode" mode and preamp for the Wooly Mammoth and new summing console, but it's just about there. Hi Tim, Thanks for the post. Firstly, the deluxe is a Beast. Love how it sounds. Just sold the purples, so the vp28's are infront of the deluxe. Will try pushing them a bit harder :-) Will soon grab a pair of warm pultec's eq's, still thinking where i should add them into the chain. Maybe front or back. Not sure yet Yeah keep us updated on the upgrade. That sounds good.Just thinking of the shipping back and forth from Australia. Really looking forward to your summing console. Can you tell us a bit more about it??? |
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mca
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Post by mca on Feb 25, 2015 13:22:55 GMT -6
Really looking forward to your summing console. Can you tell us a bit more about it??? I won't let the whole cat out of the bag yet because some ideas are still being sorted. Like all my gear, visually it pays homage to the early Putnam stuff. There will also be a stripped down mini-version but for the main unit, here are some of the details: 16x2 Summing Console. - Switchable flavors on the ins and outs, including a tube stage. Should street at roughly $1650 - Roughly 18x12 inches with wood end caps - perfect center piece for studios without an analog console. - Will have a rack version as well as a stripped down micro version - passive summing with switchable transformer inputs - super clean makeup gain amp, with switchable "color" options for flavoring to taste. - makeup gain "bypass" for inserting your favorite preamp instead - Switchable transformer options and a tube option on the output section - 16 inputs = 8 stereo buses or 6 stereo and 4 mono inputs - hardware inserts on each bus - top chassis mount tube sockets so you can swap tubes without opening the chassis. comes stock with my favorite new production matched JJ E88CC tubes, but you can swap in your favorite flavors. Go nuts and buy those $200 vintage Telefunkens! - Selectable transformers on the output; Iron transformers by Carnhill and a slightly dirtier steel option. - Some features borrowed from the Wooly mammoth series. - "Slant 6" HP/LP filters on bus channels - Stepped attenuators for true stereo tracking (bypassable) - Classic mammoth Cave styling, big "RCA" knobs on the attenuators, and Pultec style pointer knobs on the rotary switches. Amber jewell lamps etc. I may make the top chassis paint color optional. Traditional dark grey like my other gear, and I also have a vintage grey green that looks like early UA meets the color of a ELAM251 body. Here's some shots from when I was working on the layout for screen printing. Will look funny because it's mostly just drill points and whatnot for layout:   |
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Post by jdc on Feb 25, 2015 14:07:46 GMT -6
mca that looks awesome! any idea what the racked version look like? will it still have all of the same functionality?
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mca
Full Member
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Post by mca on Feb 25, 2015 14:16:00 GMT -6
mca that looks awesome! any idea what the racked version look like? will it still have all of the same functionality? Yes indeed. The prototype chassis I have here now is 20" wide but the final version will be the exact same, rackmount and desktop. Lets me use the same silkscreen too  The console will be 19" after wood end-caps and the racked version will be 19" wide total. I can't remember off hand how many U's it works out to for the rack chassis. |
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Post by joey808 on Feb 25, 2015 14:30:48 GMT -6
Would love to hear it!
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Post by popmann on Feb 25, 2015 18:09:30 GMT -6
You want to use the insert on the master. There is no difference in the resultant sound, but it gives you the ability to bypass cleanly and incorporate plugs both before AND after....as well as monitor the actual post ADA loop feed.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 12, 2015 9:01:01 GMT -6
Really looking forward to your summing console. Can you tell us a bit more about it??? I won't let the whole cat out of the bag yet because some ideas are still being sorted. Like all my gear, visually it pays homage to the early Putnam stuff. There will also be a stripped down mini-version but for the main unit, here are some of the details: 16x2 Summing Console. - Switchable flavors on the ins and outs, including a tube stage. Should street at roughly $1650 - Roughly 18x12 inches with wood end caps - perfect center piece for studios without an analog console. - Will have a rack version as well as a stripped down micro version - passive summing with switchable transformer inputs - super clean makeup gain amp, with switchable "color" options for flavoring to taste. - makeup gain "bypass" for inserting your favorite preamp instead - Switchable transformer options and a tube option on the output section - 16 inputs = 8 stereo buses or 6 stereo and 4 mono inputs - hardware inserts on each bus - top chassis mount tube sockets so you can swap tubes without opening the chassis. comes stock with my favorite new production matched JJ E88CC tubes, but you can swap in your favorite flavors. Go nuts and buy those $200 vintage Telefunkens! - Selectable transformers on the output; Iron transformers by Carnhill and a slightly dirtier steel option. - Some features borrowed from the Wooly mammoth series. - "Slant 6" HP/LP filters on bus channels - Stepped attenuators for true stereo tracking (bypassable) - Classic mammoth Cave styling, big "RCA" knobs on the attenuators, and Pultec style pointer knobs on the rotary switches. Amber jewell lamps etc. I may make the top chassis paint color optional. Traditional dark grey like my other gear, and I also have a vintage grey green that looks like early UA meets the color of a ELAM251 body. Here's some shots from when I was working on the layout for screen printing. Will look funny because it's mostly just drill points and whatnot for layout: Hey carymiller, you seen this? |
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Post by carymiller on May 12, 2015 10:06:19 GMT -6
I won't let the whole cat out of the bag yet because some ideas are still being sorted. Like all my gear, visually it pays homage to the early Putnam stuff. There will also be a stripped down mini-version but for the main unit, here are some of the details: 16x2 Summing Console. - Switchable flavors on the ins and outs, including a tube stage. Should street at roughly $1650 - Roughly 18x12 inches with wood end caps - perfect center piece for studios without an analog console. - Will have a rack version as well as a stripped down micro version - passive summing with switchable transformer inputs - super clean makeup gain amp, with switchable "color" options for flavoring to taste. - makeup gain "bypass" for inserting your favorite preamp instead - Switchable transformer options and a tube option on the output section - 16 inputs = 8 stereo buses or 6 stereo and 4 mono inputs - hardware inserts on each bus - top chassis mount tube sockets so you can swap tubes without opening the chassis. comes stock with my favorite new production matched JJ E88CC tubes, but you can swap in your favorite flavors. Go nuts and buy those $200 vintage Telefunkens! - Selectable transformers on the output; Iron transformers by Carnhill and a slightly dirtier steel option. - Some features borrowed from the Wooly mammoth series. - "Slant 6" HP/LP filters on bus channels - Stepped attenuators for true stereo tracking (bypassable) - Classic mammoth Cave styling, big "RCA" knobs on the attenuators, and Pultec style pointer knobs on the rotary switches. Amber jewell lamps etc. I may make the top chassis paint color optional. Traditional dark grey like my other gear, and I also have a vintage grey green that looks like early UA meets the color of a ELAM251 body. Here's some shots from when I was working on the layout for screen printing. Will look funny because it's mostly just drill points and whatnot for layout: Hey carymiller, you seen this? I hadn't but there's a lot to like with the layout. =) |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on May 12, 2015 10:26:40 GMT -6
Sonically I can't see how it would any different unless the bounce from the daw does something as opposed to a straight ad capture.
I've been known to use both methods. Try it and see what you think.
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The console will be 19" after wood end-caps and the racked version will be 19" wide total. I can't remember off hand how many U's it works out to for the rack chassis. 
