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Post by stratboy on Feb 16, 2015 15:06:54 GMT -6
Back in the day, R E/P was my favorite mag. When it died, Tape Op came along to fill the void. I like magazines and/or forums that feel human, have a point of view, and provide solid information without (in this internet age) descending into assholishness. Anybody else have thougths about what makes for a good mag/forum? Anyhow, I came across this site, which, in addition to having R E/P back issues, also has a TON of other cool old mags. Check it out: www.americanradiohistory.com/index.htmBtw, as a GS refugee, and having lurked here at RGO for months before I started posting, I have so much appreciation for this forum. Thank you, John and all you other wise men, for making this such a cool place to hang out and learn! Spence
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 16, 2015 15:19:08 GMT -6
Thanks, Spence. I appreciate you being here. I'm trying to figure out the same thing as I go - how do you make a forum an enjoyable experience? One of the things that bothered me about other places was the censorship and ulterior motives behind it...but after a year and a half of starting this board I'm realizing that proper moderation doesn't equal censorship. I think there has to be a level of decorum and respect that has to be "moderated." And of course, I'm held accountable to that too. At one point I was kind've like "let everything go." But that does no good. Hopefully, people will police themselves and others will point out when people are crossing the lines. I'd like to have a place where beginners don't feel intimidated and can learn and the more skilled guys can still get questions answered.
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Post by donr on Feb 16, 2015 20:09:32 GMT -6
Back in the day, R E/P was my favorite mag. When it died, Tape Op came along to fill the void. I like magazines and/or forums that feel human, have a point of view, and provide solid information without (in this internet age) descending into assholishness. Anybody else have thougths about what makes for a good mag/forum? Anyhow, I came across this site, which, in addition to having R E/P back issues, also has a TON of other cool old mags. Check it out: www.americanradiohistory.com/index.htmBtw, as a GS refugee, and having lurked here at RGO for months before I started posting, I have so much appreciation for this forum. Thank you, John and all you other wise men, for making this such a cool place to hang out and learn! Spence Thanks much for the tip on that site. I just sampled the first issue of R E/P, a wealth of useful info for anyone today and great nostalgic ads for a guy like me. Look at the articles for the first issue in 1970! Eddie Bracket (United Recording, Sinatra, etc.) Rus Gary (Wally Heider SF, Creedence) Roy Hale (CBS legend, S+G, BST etc.) Reice Hamel (Remote recorder) GeorgeKlabin (with engineer Geof Daking, Sound Ideas Studio, NY on recording drums) This is gold. What a resource for folks like us. Recording techniques from the golden age are endangered by the dying days of the guild system. Resources like this site help keep the knowledge alive. And the magazine only cost $.60. Next issue, George Martin from A.I.R. London (!)
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Feb 16, 2015 20:35:21 GMT -6
Spence, Welcome to the club. Thanks for pointing out a great resource, in no time you will realize there are a bunch of great people here who will help you in any way they can, this place is more than just an audio forum. This is the Internet hang of some great engineers, producers, writers designers techs and musicians and they are also great people.
John Part of what makes this place work is that right now everybody realizes this is your show, this is in no way shape or forum a democracy, we all have a voice, but just like walking into that favorite adult beverage spot we might choose, you reserve the right to not serve and show us the door. Now we all realize that just like any great drinking establishment, it can get lively, the subject matter may go off in strange interesting tangents, but you don't police to just police, you police when you need to police. I mean at GS you would be moving your own Weather theated !
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 16, 2015 20:44:45 GMT -6
Lol. Very true. Maybe it's different when you have 200,000 members. Probably a lot different when you reach 20,000!
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Post by odyssey76 on Feb 17, 2015 5:58:38 GMT -6
Spence, Welcome to the club. Thanks for pointing out a great resource, in no time you will realize there are a bunch of great people here who will help you in any way they can, this place is more than just an audio forum. This is the Internet hang of some great engineers, producers, writers designers techs and musicians and they are also great people. John Part of what makes this place work is that right now everybody realizes this is your show, this is in no way shape or forum a democracy, we all have a voice, but just like walking into that favorite adult beverage spot we might choose, you reserve the right to not serve and show us the door. Now we all realize that just like any great drinking establishment, it can get lively, the subject matter may go off in strange interesting tangents, but you don't police to just police, you police when you need to police. I mean at GS you would be moving your own Weather theated ! Very true and well said. I think the difference in this forum is that there are a lot of people who feel a responsibility to each other. Mods don't have to censor - we tend to squash issues ourselves just like adults do in everyday life in everyday situations. There is a strong sense of camaraderie and the foundation of this forum is very solid. Perfect for building on..... Welcome to RGO stratboy!
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Post by Ward on Feb 17, 2015 7:26:18 GMT -6
...SNIP... and they are also great people. Not me though. I'm an arse. But a lovable one!
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Post by jimwilliams on Feb 17, 2015 10:18:30 GMT -6
I really miss a pro publication like REP. Short on BS, high on technology, it was the bible for AE's back in the day.
I feel lucky to have been a part of it in the later years, I did product reviews for them.
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Post by svart on Feb 17, 2015 10:40:47 GMT -6
Anyone else feel like Tapeop is mostly fluff, like advertisements and very lenient reviews and pretty sparse on anything else? I mean occasionally they have a good interview, but it seems like it's all about the advertisements.
I get that it's a mostly free publication and they have to pay for it, but I've gotten other free rags that had far more content and much less advertisements.. And the reviews.. It's like every review in Tapeop is positive to the point of seeming shill.
Or am I the only one that feels this way?
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 17, 2015 11:09:11 GMT -6
I'm not sure I've ever seen a negative review in Tape Op. It's a touchy situation though...the only way those magazines are free and exist is because of advertisers. Same here. You slag a product and it obviously pisses off the hand that's feeding you. The difference in a forum and magazine being that the manufacturer has a chance to respond here on the internet. I want people to be able to respectfully point out criticisms and manufacturers listen and respond with solutions.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 17, 2015 11:10:07 GMT -6
That being said, I'm not gonna let people come on here and smear products. "It sucks" is not a valid criticism.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 11:11:02 GMT -6
Anyone else feel like Tapeop is mostly fluff, like advertisements and very lenient reviews and pretty sparse on anything else? I mean occasionally they have a good interview, but it seems like it's all about the advertisements. I get that it's a mostly free publication and they have to pay for it, but I've gotten other free rags that had far more content and much less advertisements.. And the reviews.. It's like every review in Tapeop is positive to the point of seeming shill. Or am I the only one that feels this way? I think most reviews are like that, luckily for the likes of SOS they have very interesting tech articles and delve into some deep debates with a lot of knowledge and reason. So I can kind of forgive them for being extremely dead centre mild mannered on most gear. Mags don't do well nowadays with the tinterwibble, it's not going to help if you keep calling products crap in terms of advertisements.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 11:12:05 GMT -6
That being said, I'm not gonna let people come on here and smear products. "It sucks" is not a valid criticism. "Note to self, replace it sucks with " it blows"..
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 17, 2015 11:20:15 GMT -6
I think for a forum, if people are honest and respectful(that includes calling bad product bad), it can lead it to being a fantastic resource for users and advertisers. If people know they can trust what they read, then they will stick around, and word will spread to potential members and quality gear advertisers alike.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Feb 17, 2015 11:39:56 GMT -6
Ask Jim Williams what happens when you write a bad review! Subscription, and News stand sales are a pittance, it's all about ad revenue, and your right who's going to bite the hand that feeds you? So much of this industry is comped by the publishers, I think at one point I was getting 12 different free Audio subscriptions ( we were also a big advertiser). So much about what we do is about esthetic, would a painter say a color "sucks" and be taken seriously? The only legitimate reason for dissing a piece in a review is if its faulty or The imperial performance is below spec or sub par, and even then somebody is probably going to find a use as vibe piece. Nobody wants to read about per ent of distortion and freq response though we want an idea of how it sounds thus the review reads like ad copy because the best ad for the publication is to be quoted in the manufacturers ad in another publication. A Negative review pisses off the manufacturers, and distribuvutors and makes it harder to get samples to review. People in this industry have long memories and move on to other jobs so a bad review of say the latest say Eventide could result in not being able to get DBX products if the wrong person moves from Eventide to DBX. The other thing is nobody ever listed any possible conflicts (Hi I the primary reviewer also write copy for one of the largest dealers).
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Post by Ward on Feb 17, 2015 11:55:29 GMT -6
That being said, I'm not gonna let people come on here and smear products. "It sucks" is not a valid criticism. Definitely. If you don't like a product, explain why to some degree and offer a pointer to a product you prefer, and 'why' if possible. Now, if I could follow that advice...
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Post by donr on Feb 17, 2015 12:48:40 GMT -6
For a while, I did a column and some gear reviews for Guitar For The Practcing Musician mag. I was asked to review an entry level wireless in ear monitor system from a familiar name in wireless products. After using it as you would typically, I called my editor and told him I couldn't say anything good about the product. He said no problem and they wound up not reviewing it.
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Post by svart on Feb 17, 2015 12:50:53 GMT -6
For a while, I did a column and some gear reviews for Guitar For The Practcing Musician mag. I was asked to review an entry level wireless in ear monitor system from a familiar name in wireless products. After using it as you would typically, I called my editor and told him I couldn't say anything good about the product. He said no problem and they wound up not reviewing it. I figure this is how it goes with most reviews in most magazines. As John said above, you can't say too many bad things about products before you start to lose the advertisement revenue. It's sad that most information these days is generally fed to us as a way to make money for someone else.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 17, 2015 13:44:17 GMT -6
Here's my assumptions when reading tapeOp and SOS reviews:
-they're only reviewing products that they think are at least decent for the money. -unless they're absolutely raving about a product, it's probably just average. -they're probably failing to mention some important negative qualities of the product.
It kills me when they say things like "Cons: none, considering the price" ... which is total nonsense.
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 17, 2015 14:16:57 GMT -6
For a while, I did a column and some gear reviews for Guitar For The Practcing Musician mag. I was asked to review an entry level wireless in ear monitor system from a familiar name in wireless products. After using it as you would typically, I called my editor and told him I couldn't say anything good about the product. He said no problem and they wound up not reviewing it. ^ this would be the smartest thing to do with a magazine i'd think, just don't review stuff if it stinks. But that is a totally diff animal than an interactive forum like this.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Feb 17, 2015 15:01:56 GMT -6
For a while, I did a column and some gear reviews for Guitar For The Practcing Musician mag. I was asked to review an entry level wireless in ear monitor system from a familiar name in wireless products. After using it as you would typically, I called my editor and told him I couldn't say anything good about the product. He said no problem and they wound up not reviewing it. ^ this would be the smartest thing to do with a magazine i'd think, just don't review stuff if it stinks. But that is a totally diff animal than an interactive forum like this. The problem is when the manufacturer threatens to pull there ads if there isn't a review no less the implied positive one!
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Post by jimwilliams on Feb 17, 2015 17:31:37 GMT -6
REP allowed me to do honest reviews. I would do 3 part reviews, 1. objective descriptions 2. audio tests 3. subjective personal opinions
It was the audio tests that allowed some less than flattering facts to get published. Manufacturers had a hard time argueing with printed Audio Precision plots.
These days I still see 3 part reviews: 1. I tried it 2. I liked it 3. Go buy it
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Post by stratboy on Feb 18, 2015 20:46:07 GMT -6
I never wrote for an audio mag. but back when I got my kicks from going fast, I occasionally wrote and took photos for certain motorcycle mags. It was the same there as every type of trade mag: no review means it sucked. Decent review means it was okay. Rave review means it might actually be good. I think it is a fair system, given that the mags that are still around depend on ad revenue. If you can't say anything nice...
I also saw it from the other side when I was a product manager for an audio manufacturer, and later, marketing manager for an audio post house. We would commission articles and submit them to the publications. Never reviews, but often interviews or news (advertorials) where the subject was using the gear in question. Again, the editor would choose to run it, or would politely say, no, thank-you.
I agree with jimwilliams that REP's reviews were particularly useful because of the tech data. I think TV Technology still does "On the Bench" type supplements to their reviews with real test data. That said, the review and supplement wouldn't make the mag if the product wasn't good in the first place. See above.
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Post by matt on Feb 18, 2015 21:12:47 GMT -6
I think it is a difficult thing these days, running a magazine. Lots of competition, and everyone is a reviewer on the Web these days. RGO is exactly this: we review, and opine.
Biting the hand that feeds is always a dicey proposition, so I imagine that editorial commentary gets internally moderated at publishers like SOS. True, their reviews are positive by default, but at least they permit the printing of product deficiencies along the lines of: "it's a good product, but could use feature x". Their review of Softube's Console 1 fits into this category. It might even be fair to say that Softube addressed some issues with the original release (in part) due to the SOS review. And that's a good thing.
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Post by jdc on Feb 18, 2015 22:30:05 GMT -6
These days I still see 3 part reviews: 1. I tried it 2. I liked it 3. Go buy it this is just about every review i see nowadays that being said, Johnkenn would an official review section be something that ever comes to RGO? I find myself digging through threads here trying to find discussions of gear before I purchase more often than not.
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