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Post by jayson on Feb 4, 2015 7:19:01 GMT -6
So I've been craving doing a mic build and I'm really on the fence as to whether I should just start out with a purpose-made donor body with new capsule/PCB etc - or buy a cheapie prosumer mic and modify the guts. I think, for the moment, I'd really like focus on an 87 clone. I'd say my mic collection already has an satisfactory stock of tube mics (if there is such a thing) and I'd like to get some high grade solid state utility mics in there so I don't find myself wrestling with power supplies and differing multi-pin cables quite so much. The more I consider this project the more I find myself tripping over the same question: start from scratch or mod something pre-existing? So my question here for the folks who've been down this road is what do you think is the better route? This'll be my first mic build so ideally I'd like to find a solution that's easy to source - if not all in one box - that being said I definitely don't want to skimp on quality. Whaddya think? Anybody done both who has preference?
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Post by svart on Feb 4, 2015 7:28:08 GMT -6
Generally, the mod items in a mic are the capsule, the transformers, caps, etc. These happen to be the majority of the parts in the mic, besides the body.
I guess what I'm saying is that to do a good U87, you'd be gutting a donor down to the body, and then putting your own capsule, PCB, caps, transformer, etc in it. Might just be easier to get a kit for your first build. There is plenty to go wrong trying to go it on your own.
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Post by swurveman on Feb 4, 2015 8:43:08 GMT -6
On this thought, what is considered a good U87ai clone and kit?
I have a chance to get a U87ai for $1,600.00. It works, but it's pretty beat up. So, I was wondering at the cost for the best clones/kits.
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Post by kidvybes on Feb 4, 2015 9:37:53 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 4, 2015 10:11:17 GMT -6
Studio projects C3 u87 mod from microphone parts looks solid/cheap
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Post by jimwilliams on Feb 4, 2015 10:49:17 GMT -6
First time? Microphone-parts is the easy route, pictures, step by step instructions, no theory required.
When you become an expert, you can make your own from scratch.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 4, 2015 11:25:50 GMT -6
Also, check the studio 939 site for the iaudio build, there is build info at Group diy microphones thread, I think.
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Post by jayson on Feb 4, 2015 14:09:01 GMT -6
First time? Microphone-parts is the easy route, pictures, step by step instructions, no theory required. When you become an expert, you can make your own from scratch. This wouldn't be my first DIY - I feel pretty comfortable building a VP28 or a Hairball for example - but it would be the first mic. I absolutely agree that a complete kit really would be the way to go, nothing wrong with the easy route from where I sit...unless the overall quality of the mic somehow suffers as a result. If what I'd be building was just going to be a compromise I think I'd just as soon buy an off-the-rack mic. I would even be ok with a kit that featured everything you needed for the build except the capsule and tranny - since those items are going to lend themselves more to personal preference and may very well get immediately or eventually switched out for alternatives. It is interesting that you mentioned Microphone Parts, they're kind why I was wondering if it would make more sense to modify something pre-existing. Looking at the Microphone Parts website it doesn't look as if they actually offer an 87 kit these days. The Linear 87 kit is listed there, but as a discontinued product and everything else on the site seems to focus either on modification kits for pre-existing, prosumer mics or individual capsules (am I missing something? ). I've looked at the vintagemicrophonepcbkit and that seems to lead in some tempting directions but it does leave me asking myself a few questions: How accurate is the BOM? Do I need to make any substitutions to what's listed on it? (I'm ok with spending a bit more to get the most optimum components for the build...as long as I know what to get) Is there anything I REALLY need that isn't on it? How robust is the SYT-5 body? and, of course, what's the difference between the L, M and T variants and which is right for me? The upshot is that the sourcing choices are something I really only need to get right once, after that it's just repeating the same steps. Trouble is I'd like to get the recipe right the first time!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 18:50:44 GMT -6
vintagemicrophonepcbkit/poctop/Dany designed the D-87 pcbs. But i see, he offers no kit, but a one-click BOM for the project at the webpage. The BOM looks ok, quality-wise, with Wima and Nichicon caps, but i have NOT verified it, nor read thru the build thread at GDIY. Get a donor mic, capsule and maybe AMI T13 and you may be good to go... There actually IS a complete project kit available on the internet, from France, which had got some beef from the DIY community, because it seems these are poctop's PCB designs. The kit is available from micandmod. OK, i said it. It is not too cheap, but not expensive either. 499 for complete set including body, cinemag T13 replacement transformer and a capsule. Can't say anything about the quality of the supplied capsule ... I am not too deep into GDIY anymore, so i don't know, if Dany/poctop and Mic&Mod do have an agreement meanwhile. So i will not recommend it but I will also not judge over the quality of kit and service (because i simply not know) or business ethical concerns. But you asked, and it is fair to inform that there actually is such a kit on the market...
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Post by winetree on Feb 5, 2015 20:24:43 GMT -6
Go to Groupdiy.com There is a lot of build threads there. Some Step by step coloring books. I've built over 25 mics and that's where I got my start.
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Post by jayson on Feb 6, 2015 19:42:57 GMT -6
Ahh - here's the link you're referring to; micandmod.com/en/u87-i/45-u87-diy-kit.htmlThat looks like it'd be a pretty good start. I could always swap components out later. In fact, I'm certain I would. Several times. Now, if there's some kind of bad politics here I definitely want to be aware of it and understand it; I don't have any interest subsidizing any kind of unethical commerce hanky panky. It does say on the site that it's "PCB D-U87 by Poctop". Have they stolen a design or skirted his resale policies or something? I do not want to support bad juju - particularly in the DIY world. But I digress... It also lists Cinemag tranny and a Vintage Microphones K87 capsule. I suspect the capsule and tranny may get changed out a few times before I settle on one for the long haul. I wonder if the housing is any good?
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 6, 2015 20:19:56 GMT -6
Ahh - here's the link you're referring to; micandmod.com/en/u87-i/45-u87-diy-kit.htmlThat looks like it'd be a pretty good start. I could always swap components out later. In fact, I'm certain I would. Several times. Now, if there's some kind of bad politics here I definitely want to be aware of it and understand it; I don't have any interest subsidizing any kind of unethical commerce hanky panky. It does say on the site that it's "PCB D-U87 by Poctop". Have they stolen a design or skirted his resale policies or something? I do not want to support bad juju - particularly in the DIY world. But I digress... It also lists Cinemag tranny and a Vintage Microphones K87 capsule. I suspect the capsule and tranny may get changed out a few times before I settle on one for the long haul. I wonder if the housing is any good? here ya go, i wouldn't buy a single thing from that scumbag.... realgearonline.com/post/16839/thread
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Post by kidvybes on Feb 7, 2015 9:37:41 GMT -6
I've looked at the vintagemicrophonepcbkit and that seems to lead in some tempting directions but it does leave me asking myself a few questions: How accurate is the BOM? Do I need to make any substitutions to what's listed on it? Dany Bouchard's PCBs are based on the historically-correct schematics...if you follow the build thread on GroupdDIY for that specific mic, you will see how the build was vetted by multiple builders, and if any modifications are suggested/recommended...Dany's boards are the excellent! Oh, and the MicandMod kit is also built around Dany's "D-87T PCB" board (all of M&M's mic builds are based on Dany's boards as far as I see) so why pay a premium to have someone pre-package components you can vet and purchase individually?...consider that the 87 build is much simpler than the tube-mic clones which involve a PSU build as well... The source links I posted above are the most proven and reliable sources for the necessary components to build an accurate 87 clone...they are all established sources for the GroupDIY community...best to support those who initially invested their time and effort to make these clone projects available...
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Post by jayson on Feb 7, 2015 9:44:29 GMT -6
Now ya see, that's the kind of sleazy, deal-breaking stuff I'm talking about. I'll never understand why some schmucks put so much energy into scamming people; it would be a lot less energy to simply do things right in the first place and conduct an ethical business. It's like Wile E. Coyote and his absurd ACME contraptions. Oh well; cross that one off the list. So I'll raise the white flag in the search for a soup-to-nuts kit...let me see if I can get my head around an a-la-carte approach and maybe you folks can tell me what y'all think: I'll start off with SYT-5 gen 2 microphone body kit from Studio 939Then the D-U87L Large PCB and the switch PCB from Vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com (and I guess the Styroflex Capacitor Kit too?)The Mouser BOM for the D-U87LAnd of course the fun stuff; Transformer - maybe an AMI T-13 or Cinemag CM-13113 (or does it make more sense to go with a T-14 or CM-13114?) Capsule - Need some recommendations here - I think I'd like to stick with a K87 type of capsule but WHICH ONE? For the moment let's say TSKGUY's HK87 Does it seem like I'm forgetting anything? Any better choices for components I should check out?
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Post by kidvybes on Feb 7, 2015 9:53:14 GMT -6
Capsule - Need some recommendations here - I think I'd like to stick with a K87 type of capsule but WHICH ONE? For the moment let's say TSKGUY's HK87 Chunger recently posted that his clone build with Eric's HK67 is close enough with a current production Neumann K870 capsule in another one he built, that the two mics can be used in the studio as a stereo pair, without any obvious hint as to which mic has which capsule: groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=57797.msg742145#msg742145Eric is a great guy...feel free to link him with any questions...I'm currently waiting on his HK47 for my MK-47 build...I already have his HK12 capsule...
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Post by jayson on Feb 7, 2015 10:08:07 GMT -6
Chunger recently posted that his clone build with Eric's HK67 is close enough with a current production Neumann K870 capsule in another one he built, that the two mics can be used in the studio as a stereo pair, without any obvious hint as to which mic has which capsule: groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=57797.msg742145#msg742145Eric is a great guy...feel free to link him with any questions...I'm currently waiting on his HK47 for my MK-47 build...I already have his HK12 capsule... Very cool. Judging from what I've been reading it sounds like it should be a really good choice right out of the gate. Is it generally a long wait for any of his capsules? I'd like to be able to time it so everything arrives more or less at the same time.
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Post by jimwilliams on Feb 7, 2015 10:44:33 GMT -6
Ahh - here's the link you're referring to; micandmod.com/en/u87-i/45-u87-diy-kit.htmlThat looks like it'd be a pretty good start. I could always swap components out later. In fact, I'm certain I would. Several times. Now, if there's some kind of bad politics here I definitely want to be aware of it and understand it; I don't have any interest subsidizing any kind of unethical commerce hanky panky. It does say on the site that it's "PCB D-U87 by Poctop". Have they stolen a design or skirted his resale policies or something? I do not want to support bad juju - particularly in the DIY world. But I digress... It also lists Cinemag tranny and a Vintage Microphones K87 capsule. I suspect the capsule and tranny may get changed out a few times before I settle on one for the long haul. I wonder if the housing is any good? here ya go, i wouldn't buy a single thing from that scumbag.... realgearonline.com/post/16839/threadGet in line, my stuff has been copied for decades now. Reminds me of an old Hendrix quote: "I'm copied so close some people are copying my mistakes".
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 7, 2015 12:19:49 GMT -6
Get in line, my stuff has been copied for decades now. Reminds me of an old Hendrix quote: "I'm copied so close some people are copying my mistakes". The problem with Hendrix and ur stuff is, it's so over the top, when u try to copy it, it ALL sounds like mistakes! I've tried both 8) (but I have certainly never tried to copy something to sell!)
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 7, 2015 12:25:48 GMT -6
Chunger recently posted that his clone build with Eric's HK67 is close enough with a current production Neumann K870 capsule in another one he built, that the two mics can be used in the studio as a stereo pair, without any obvious hint as to which mic has which capsule: groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=57797.msg742145#msg742145Eric is a great guy...feel free to link him with any questions...I'm currently waiting on his HK47 for my MK-47 build...I already have his HK12 capsule... Very cool. Judging from what I've been reading it sounds like it should be a really good choice right out of the gate. Is it generally a long wait for any of his capsules? I'd like to be able to time it so everything arrives more or less at the same time. Your plan looks solid, Eric is good on time, by the time your done building the bulk of the mic,.. the capsule will be waiting IME
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Post by ben on Feb 9, 2015 8:14:27 GMT -6
Ahh - here's the link you're referring to; micandmod.com/en/u87-i/45-u87-diy-kit.htmlThat looks like it'd be a pretty good start. I could always swap components out later. In fact, I'm certain I would. Several times. Now, if there's some kind of bad politics here I definitely want to be aware of it and understand it; I don't have any interest subsidizing any kind of unethical commerce hanky panky. It does say on the site that it's "PCB D-U87 by Poctop". Have they stolen a design or skirted his resale policies or something? I do not want to support bad juju - particularly in the DIY world. But I digress... It also lists Cinemag tranny and a Vintage Microphones K87 capsule. I suspect the capsule and tranny may get changed out a few times before I settle on one for the long haul. I wonder if the housing is any good? I don't deal with MM anymore. First, for the ethical reasons, second because I purchased a mic from them and received it with a faulty shockmount, torn foam in the case and a dented head grill. I tried to contact them several times through email, ebay and facebook. Never got a reply (left a comment on FB, they deleted it!) I can't speak to the capsules, as I never used them. I understand that you can no longer buy the kits without the complete set of components. That makes the option of MM more expensive than sourcing your own if you want other components. The body is a chinese body that does the job, but if I were you, I'd just get the whole kit from ioaudio. Probably be around the same price in the end, looks more authentic, built better and you'll be supporting the real DIY community.
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Post by ben on Feb 9, 2015 8:17:58 GMT -6
Capsule - Need some recommendations here - I think I'd like to stick with a K87 type of capsule but WHICH ONE? For the moment let's say TSKGUY's HK87 Eric is a great guy...feel free to link him with any questions...I'm currently waiting on his HK47 for my MK-47 build...I already have his HK12 capsule... +1 on Eric. Awesome to deal with, and he genuinely wants to make sure you're happy. I used an HK12 in a Matachung C12 and it sounded so smooth.
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Post by jayson on Mar 27, 2015 10:43:58 GMT -6
Okay, time for a little update. I pulled the trigger on all of the stuff on the 18th. So far I've only received the Mouser components, everything else is backed up - but I have to admit I'm getting pretty psyched. It's looking like I might not actually see the other parts for a little while yet so I might have to do another build to take my mind off it; damn that urge for instant gratification! I think that might be the reason I was originally hoping to find a cohesive kit...now I have to feel like a kid a week before Christmas for another month or so!
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Post by jayson on Mar 27, 2015 12:33:34 GMT -6
Typed too soon. Just received the board from Dany Bouchard. Looking like I can get a little time in on the soldering iron tonight!
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