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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 17, 2013 16:10:53 GMT -6
Somebody give me some advise. I'm not a drummer. It's the one thing I consistently struggle with. Just doesnt seem like I can get the feel, ghost notes, etc. with a keyboard...I can get a little closer with a trigger finger, but it seems like that lacks sensitivity too. It annoys me to struggle for hours with drag and drop midi loops...maybe a hybrid would work.
Anyway, I've been threatening to buy a Roland TD4 or something. Obviously, it would be a learning process, but it would stop me from programming like a three handed drummer and maybe allow me to put things down more quickly. Anyone have any experience with some of these Roland kits? Sensitivity?
Also - is something like NI Maschine a viable option? Much more responsive than trigger finger?
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Post by matt on Aug 17, 2013 16:17:11 GMT -6
I am interested, as well. It is tough to program a good track in BFD2.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 17, 2013 16:29:23 GMT -6
It's just all the little nuances that are lacking. The dynamics, the ghost notes, etc...
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Post by bentley on Aug 17, 2013 21:27:56 GMT -6
I bought a cheap-o Yamaha kit long ago with the very same goal and rarely use it to input with. What it did do was teach me how think a bit more like a drummer as I was finally forced to sit down and use all my limbs. These days I prefer to play into the sequencer using a MIDI keyboard but then again my interests lie mainly in electronic based music so that impacts my preference. I had Maschine for a bit but never had a chance to compare it to something like a trigger finger. I eventually sold Maschine simply because I couldn't be arsed to learn another way of working... I have too many distractions already/options already! I did find that anything I input with the e-drums to MIDI I'd still go back and fine tune the dynamics and clean up sloppy timing. It was a great way to smash out a quick idea though.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 17, 2013 21:48:53 GMT -6
See - I wonder if I just want/need a more responsive thingy like TF. I've heard PadKontrol has the most sensitive pads...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2013 7:02:22 GMT -6
I use Addictive Drums and a TD9 independently... Haven't tried together. The TD9 has done really well in smaller venues and the mesh heads are excellent and responsive. The only competitors I see for feel are the best Alesis kit and the Pearl. I thought the Roland was still better than the Pearl.
Regarding recording, I am super judgmental on programmed drums and ruthlessly edit the midi velocities to throw them off balance and introduce a human feel. I do a lot of flams which are always heavily edited and have a song with a march snare feel which took a long time but is not doable. I will try to post a sample.
All that to day that I bet my money on the velocity editing for ghost notes and realism. The only notes that are full velocity are the main snare and kick hits for consistency.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2013 7:03:43 GMT -6
Plus, doing it by hand and key allows for each to be on separate Midi tracks, making editing way easier.
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Post by henge on Aug 18, 2013 7:17:04 GMT -6
Regarding recording, I am super judgmental on programmed drums and ruthlessly edit the midi velocities to throw them off balance and introduce a human feel. I do a lot of flams which are always heavily edited and have a song with a march snare feel which took a long time but is not doable. I will try to post a sample. All that to day that I bet my money on the velocity editing for ghost notes and realism. The only notes that are full velocity are the main snare and kick hits for consistency. Excellent advice imo. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2013 8:17:25 GMT -6
Oops. Meant the march snare groove is NOW doable.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 18, 2013 10:16:22 GMT -6
Not being a drummer, I'm wondering whether I would really use the set...might be able to play things easier on a much better midi pad controller like the Korg Padkontrol.
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Post by henge on Aug 18, 2013 11:04:05 GMT -6
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Post by sozocaps on Aug 18, 2013 11:35:27 GMT -6
This is what I do... Record real drums and trigger the kick and snare with SSD4 also Attachments:
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 18, 2013 12:52:21 GMT -6
Got a used Korg Pad kontrol. Ill post with results.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2013 19:22:56 GMT -6
Honestly you'd be better off just getting a drummer. I'm available for anything that doesn't have a double kick, I really just need to get my gear out of the shop. Even if there's someone in your area that plays well I'd barter or pay. It's not that you can't programmed drums to feel right it's just it takes way more time than just recording a kit. I also know another really good drummer who I know would be willing to play but he'd probably want a small fee. He's currently playing in a country band.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 18, 2013 20:56:00 GMT -6
Thanks for the offer...There are certainly no shortage of drummers available here...Hell, Neil Young's drummer will do it for $150...seriously  . But - I'm talking about building a track from scratch...they wouldn't have anything to play to considering drums are usually what I start with. This is basically for demo purposes... As far as the Pad Kontrol...it's not quite the revelation I was hoping for...but better than Trigger Finger. TF is pretty much just as responsive, but occasionally, it would miss hits if you weren't accurate...PK doesn't have the same issue. Also, the editor on PK is MUCH more intuitive. I'll post this thing when I'm done this week. |
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Post by drumrec on Aug 19, 2013 0:40:55 GMT -6
One thing I do when I'm writing with other songwriters and want a demo drum sketch quickly. First I make a basic drum programming and then I run with live drums with two microphones, Mide Side or Glyn Johns micing. This will give life in your simple drum programming in a fast way. So my advice is, buy a cheap drum kit (Bd, Sd, HH). You need not be a master of the drums to get a little ghost notes. Then you overdrive your live drumming a little and you're done! quick and fun Cheers /H |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2013 6:18:32 GMT -6
One thing I do when I'm writing with other songwriters and want a demo drum sketch quickly. First I make a basic drum programming and then I run with live drums with two microphones, Mide Side or Glyn Johns micing. This will give life in your simple drum programming in a fast way. So my advice is, buy a cheap drum kit (Bd, Sd, HH). You need not be a master of the drums to get a little ghost notes. Then you overdrive your live drumming a little and you're done! quick and fun Cheers /H Very clever! Never considered this. Even a four bar section on just hats would help. Most programmed drums seem most awkward with cymbals. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 20, 2013 9:18:27 GMT -6
I've thought about buying a HH and cymbals...but hell, why not just go for broke, then...
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 24, 2013 12:50:43 GMT -6
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Post by mobeach on Aug 24, 2013 13:23:24 GMT -6
Not being a drummer, I'm wondering whether I would really use the set...might be able to play things easier on a much better midi pad controller like the Korg Padkontrol. That's what I ran into, I have a Yamaha DTXtreme. it sounds good enough to lay down tracks but I can only play very basic beats, so I usually record two tracks, one with the kick, snare and hi hat and another with the toms. I've had better luck programming my DR-880. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 13:43:56 GMT -6
www.katpercussion.com/Pro drum pads. A really good friend of mine (great jazz drummer) had DRUM KAT pads - 3 concentric zones per pad + rimshot ring, behaving alot like real drums.  Best i personally saw in action until now. It was an older just 2 pad machine, dunno what they have now on sale...but it really was a great performer.
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. But - I'm talking about building a track from scratch...they wouldn't have anything to play to considering drums are usually what I start with. This is basically for demo purposes...
