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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 25, 2015 11:36:32 GMT -6
We do live in interesting times.
I spent an hour on the phone with a friend yesterday. He'd just spent a totally frustrating week in a major studio remaking a hit record with the same artist and musicians he'd originally recorded it with back in the '80s. He said the outboard gear he'd used back then was literally falling apart and none in any better condition turned out to be available. The high end console from the '90s also had big reliability issues. In a number of cases he had no choice but to use plug-ins to match the sound of what had been done before even with the actual devices at hand. As a result, he's decided to mostly stop using outboard hardware.
Another problem is that the tapes from the '60s-'90s are rapidly deteriorating and the majors are all transferring everything to 192k files in order to preserve them. We've still got Edison's first words but we lost a decade of digital recordings from the '80s and now tape is on its way too.
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Post by ericn on Jan 25, 2015 12:22:19 GMT -6
I think the guys who are going subscription see it as a way of locking in the customer as an exclusive plugin user. In other words you are only going to need and buy into 1 plugin subscription !
Not that most of us would, but I know that's been UADs hope since day one.
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Post by ericn on Jan 25, 2015 12:24:00 GMT -6
We do live in interesting times. I spent an hour on the phone with a friend yesterday. He'd just spent a totally frustrating week in a major studio remaking a hit record with the same artist and musicians he'd originally recorded it with back in the '80s. He said the outboard gear he'd used back then was literally falling apart and none in any better condition turned out to be available. The high end console from the '90s also had big reliability issues. In a number of cases he had no choice but to use plug-ins to match the sound of what had been done before even with the actual devices at hand. As a result, he's decided to mostly stop using outboard hardware. Another problem is that the tapes from the '60s-'90s are rapidly deteriorating and the majors are all transferring everything to 192k files in order to preserve them. We've still got Edison's first words but we lost a decade of digital recordings from the '80s and now tape is on its way too. But Bob we all had experiences like that since for me the 80s! Back then we didn't have plugins. |
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Post by popmann on Jan 25, 2015 13:09:01 GMT -6
I've always said this is where it had to go.
There are these absurd notions of software "ownership", unsupported in any EULA I've ever read.
Look at anything in the IT world....it's been the roadmap for years--move to the cloud. Move the cloud in house. Move the house somewhere cheap....ie--Communist China....pull the ability for non cloud based installs....subscription money rolls in. No one wants to start over. Me as a single guy? Don't give a shit--but, I mean on the bigger scale--a large company with a huge interconnected Microsoft platform? Exchange/Sharepoint/Office/Windows....isn't going to change. The cost to productivity to change....well--it won't trump the expense money paid to keep those lights turned on.
If I'm going to look on the bright side, this means that I now don't have to have current tools to make my own work to have the best. I'll just "rent" all of Slate and Waves for $40 every couple years when I have an album to mix. This means I'll spend considerably less on software. Though....that might be "none", since what I have works perfectly fine for me.....
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 25, 2015 13:24:37 GMT -6
We do live in interesting times. I spent an hour on the phone with a friend yesterday. He'd just spent a totally frustrating week in a major studio remaking a hit record with the same artist and musicians he'd originally recorded it with back in the '80s. He said the outboard gear he'd used back then was literally falling apart and none in any better condition turned out to be available. The high end console from the '90s also had big reliability issues. In a number of cases he had no choice but to use plug-ins to match the sound of what had been done before even with the actual devices at hand. As a result, he's decided to mostly stop using outboard hardware. Another problem is that the tapes from the '60s-'90s are rapidly deteriorating and the majors are all transferring everything to 192k files in order to preserve them. We've still got Edison's first words but we lost a decade of digital recordings from the '80s and now tape is on its way too. Definitely interesting. I have to say, the convenience of plugins sometimes trump the modest gain that might be gotten from hardware. I mean, for a demo, do I really want to burn 6 EG parts down for a 2khz boost? Or just throw the plugin on it. Also, it's the Indian, not the arrow. On a recent record I produced, we had a few songs mixed by a very prominent/expensive/"2 of every peice of hardware" mixer and the rest by a very successful mixer that does everything ITB. Guess which one sounds better? Guess which one was easier to deal with? Guess which one could make changes in 30 minutes? Sigh...Maybe I'll just stay on PT 10 for the next 10 years. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 25, 2015 13:28:52 GMT -6
I've always said this is where it had to go. There are these absurd notions of software "ownership", unsupported in any EULA I've ever read. Look at anything in the IT world....it's been the roadmap for years--move to the cloud. Move the cloud in house. Move the house somewhere cheap....ie--Communist China....pull the ability for non cloud based installs....subscription money rolls in. No one wants to start over. Me as a single guy? Don't give a shit--but, I mean on the bigger scale--a large company with a huge interconnected Microsoft platform? Exchange/Sharepoint/Office/Windows....isn't going to change. The cost to productivity to change....well--it won't trump the expense money paid to keep those lights turned on. If I'm going to look on the bright side, this means that I now don't have to have current tools to make my own work to have the best. I'll just "rent" all of Slate and Waves for $40 every couple years when I have an album to mix. This means I'll spend considerably less on software. Though....that might be "none", since what I have works perfectly fine for me..... Very true...it could very well be "cheaper" to just rent the stuff when I need it. But if I know me, it will end up being like Apple TV. I lose track of how much I've used it. I think, "Oh, screw it - it's just $20"...and then I've spent $100. THAT'S what they're betting on. Also, I think this has a ton to do with cracks...It's maybe a way to ease the initial investment so it's just easier to get the legal thing - and maybe it's a good plan. |
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Post by ericn on Jan 25, 2015 14:17:14 GMT -6
The problem with subscription is you are going to need to read that EULA to understand your long term commitment .
How do I get out? What is dropping going to cost me? Have I unknowingly agreed to an increase down the road?
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 25, 2015 14:59:28 GMT -6
I see myself getting my system stable and staying with it as long as I can..I hate updating and constantly changing things. I love to play and write music not tinker with stuff all the time. My goal for my room is to get my Vocal mic setup where I can just select input patch it up and record. Same with acoustic guitar, bass, E Guitar and amps. I love my Maschine to tap out a drumbeat and get it swinging and basically use that as a click I also think great work can be made ITB when tracks are recorded properly. Ive pretty much nixed summing and just prescribe to hardware inserts and have a chain that I will use on the master buss hardware insert.
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Post by ericn on Jan 25, 2015 15:30:26 GMT -6
I was just thinking Avid and all the other DAW manufacturers have to love the Idea of subscription plugins. If I have acess to all of a manufacturers plugins and I need to upgrade my DAW to use the latest and greatest slate plugs I'm going to probably upgrade my DAW so I can use the plugins I am paying for!
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Post by ionian on Jan 25, 2015 15:58:36 GMT -6
I'll tell you what I'm really enjoying right now - the fact that we can discuss this reasonably, the good and the bad with both the people who are against and support it without Slate showing up by the third post and completely steamrolling the entire thread and going after every naysayer with his one-sided and fixed challenges and basically chasing everyone away until the thread is left with no one but his followers.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 25, 2015 16:28:29 GMT -6
My main rule is "don't be an asshole"...and hopefully people self-police or point out when someone is being one.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 25, 2015 17:40:31 GMT -6
I'm old skool: Never buy anything unless you need to use it so often that it's cheaper to buy a used one. Chris Stone told me Record Plant never bought anything new or that they could lease.
I bought a bunch of used mikes around 1970 because I wanted to learn how to use something other than KM-86s which was all we had at work. It was obvious Motown would be closing the Detroit studios and I knew there was probably no other studio on Earth that had 30 KM-86s. (It turned out EMI/London did but nowhere else.) I've hung on to them but the only mikes I ever added to my collection were three KM-84s.
As for PT10, I can't even open mixes I've been doing with PT11 it is so much more efficient. If you have TDM you might want to hang there but 11 is mighty good native.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 25, 2015 18:15:20 GMT -6
That's the sad thing, Bob...PT11 is SO much better.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 26, 2015 9:51:38 GMT -6
Think about it. They've moved from the oldest audio engine and plug-in format, what had to be a kludge involving 20 years worth of code patches, to the very newest. There's no reason to not expect it to get even better after some growing pains due to it not having had the benefit of 20 years worth of bug fixes.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jan 26, 2015 10:48:40 GMT -6
We do live in interesting times. I spent an hour on the phone with a friend yesterday. He'd just spent a totally frustrating week in a major studio remaking a hit record with the same artist and musicians he'd originally recorded it with back in the '80s. He said the outboard gear he'd used back then was literally falling apart and none in any better condition turned out to be available. The high end console from the '90s also had big reliability issues. In a number of cases he had no choice but to use plug-ins to match the sound of what had been done before even with the actual devices at hand. As a result, he's decided to mostly stop using outboard hardware. Which major studio might this be? They all used to have mantainence people to keep the hardware running. My biz is to keep the hardware running. Seems it's more a cost issue than an inability to keep well designed hardware functioning. It's so much easier to click a mouse than to pick up a soldering iron. |
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Post by ericn on Jan 26, 2015 10:55:02 GMT -6
We do live in interesting times. I spent an hour on the phone with a friend yesterday. He'd just spent a totally frustrating week in a major studio remaking a hit record with the same artist and musicians he'd originally recorded it with back in the '80s. He said the outboard gear he'd used back then was literally falling apart and none in any better condition turned out to be available. The high end console from the '90s also had big reliability issues. In a number of cases he had no choice but to use plug-ins to match the sound of what had been done before even with the actual devices at hand. As a result, he's decided to mostly stop using outboard hardware. Which major studio might this be? They all used to have mantainence people to keep the hardware running. My biz is to keep the hardware running. Seems it's more a cost issue than an inability to keep well designed hardware functioning. It's so much easier to click a mouse than to pick up a soldering iron. Ill counter that Jim There was a Time when the DAW machine was just a DAW, but now there is more pressure to have that thing on the net surfing and doing everything else. Few realize the places we go on the net leave a trail and oh so much garbage ! Add in the fact every audio guy thinks he's an IT guy and it becomes more of a mess. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 26, 2015 15:06:25 GMT -6
Certainly it's cost but parts availability is rapidly becoming a factor too. It's ironic that it's easier to get parts other than decent tubes for tube gear than for the solid state stuff from the '70s and '80s.
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Post by adogg4629 on Jan 26, 2015 17:49:17 GMT -6
If the question is; "would I pay $240/ year for plugins from Slate?" My answer..."No".
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Post by adogg4629 on Jan 26, 2015 17:50:43 GMT -6
Which major studio might this be? They all used to have mantainence people to keep the hardware running. My biz is to keep the hardware running. Seems it's more a cost issue than an inability to keep well designed hardware functioning. It's so much easier to click a mouse than to pick up a soldering iron. Ill counter that Jim There was a Time when the DAW machine was just a DAW, but now there is more pressure to have that thing on the net surfing and doing everything else. Few realize the places we go on the net leave a trail and oh so much garbage ! Add in the fact every audio guy thinks he's an IT guy and it becomes more of a mess. My favorite response yet. |
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Post by jimwilliams on Jan 27, 2015 10:02:51 GMT -6
Most parts are available except custom stuff like SSL panels, Neve panels, but the innards are commodity items available anywhere. Older silicon is also available from NOS resellers, but at a higher cost. I buy NOS silicon all the time here just to keep those older pieces running. Older outboard can also be kept running, it takes a bit of effort but there is always a way. CA3036 transistor arrays are not available, but 5 discrete matched transistors can make up a substitute.
It's so much easier to throw your hands up and buy a plug, a mouse is easier to operate than a soldering iron. In this modern recording world, convienience trumps quality.
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