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Post by henge on Jan 10, 2015 8:20:56 GMT -6
A while ago Johnkenn posted a Beatles vid. They were sitting around listening and at the end of the tune someone said let's hear that again. The rewind took about as long as the song. Made me realize how much time was spent rewinding and finding locations in the song...all of which the client paid for. Now we can instantly go to wherever we need to go. Probably added 10-20% more time to get stuff done. Daw's should implement a "tape rewind " function that slooooows navigation down! Make a bit more coin...;-)
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Post by mulmany on Jan 10, 2015 8:51:56 GMT -6
One side of the argument of why tape was better for music. All the limitations and down time to actually talk and think about what you just did.
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Post by svart on Jan 10, 2015 10:31:03 GMT -6
One side of the argument of why tape was better for music. All the limitations and down time to actually talk and think about what you just did. This is part of the reason I don't charge by the hour for most recording. Not only do I not want the artist to feel rushed, but sitting around talking keeps people feeling good and loose, and that helps performances too. Tense people worried about costs waste more time in nervous retakes than if they had simply taken it slow to begin with.
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Post by Ward on Jan 10, 2015 10:54:28 GMT -6
I no longer have the patience for tape, and neither does anyone else these days.
You stil go back and listen to what you did, and you examine things more closer. Non-linear limited access and editing has made things better.
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Post by cenafria on Jan 10, 2015 13:05:21 GMT -6
Curious, I find sessions on tape tend to be more efficient. We do about 50/50 tape/protools here.
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Post by Ward on Jan 10, 2015 13:20:51 GMT -6
The 24-track just gathers dust at my place. Occasionally, an old client wants an analog session transferred to PT, but that's about it.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 11, 2015 13:23:55 GMT -6
I've never been convinced saving rewind time has any benefit. Performance is all about focus. Those added seconds often help people take a breath and get even more into it.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 11, 2015 13:50:29 GMT -6
I've never been convinced saving rewind time has any benefit. Performance is all about focus. Those added seconds often help people take a breath and get even more into it. Gives the performer a chance to understand where the take went wrong. I like this theory.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 11, 2015 16:10:51 GMT -6
barring few exceptions, things that take more time, have more thought put into them, end up better. Even the most spontaneously inspired song ideas are usually developed over time, Strawberry Fields Forever was developed over 7 years!
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 11, 2015 16:53:38 GMT -6
On the other hand, you can easily get more stinkin' from thinkin' than you can from drinkin'!
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Post by wiz on Jan 11, 2015 16:59:50 GMT -6
On the other hand, you can easily get more stinkin' from thinkin' than you can from drinkin'! So there's the chorus for the 3/4 song you guys are gonna write...... 8) cheers Wiz
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 11, 2015 20:11:55 GMT -6
I wish I could say that was original. I heard it from an old vaudevillian I met in San Francisco named Joe Miller.
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Post by popmann on Jan 11, 2015 22:21:45 GMT -6
Original. That's quaint. I demand we do it in 6/8, though.
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Post by Ward on Jan 11, 2015 22:41:57 GMT -6
Oh great... now you want original on top of everything else!
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Post by cenafria on Jan 12, 2015 4:28:12 GMT -6
I find when working on the computer many decisions tend to be postponed. With tape, it's more complicated to do that. A classic example is the band's dynamic when recording basic tracks. On Protools, practically every band tends to do three or four takes in a row and then listen back to them (I believe the reason is this way of working calms many anxieties). Working on tape, bands generally have enough tape to keep one or two alternate takes. This forces them to decide whether or not to erase the take right after they've recorded it. If the take has a chance of being a keeper, they come into the control room to listen. At the end of the day, this means that bands that record on tape can have a keeper first take and move on to the next song. Many bands on protools are robbed of this posibility by the standard protools/computer working method. This is just an example we see every day at the studio. Switching from tape to protools constantly at our studio, as unbelievable as it might seem, tape wins out as the more efficient system. Obviously, you can work on the computer in a similar way to working on tape, and I often do. You do have to talk to the band and explain the advantages, though.
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Post by Ward on Jan 12, 2015 7:35:12 GMT -6
I defy the belief in the mystical "one take wonder". Even if the first take was good, there is still room for improvement!
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Post by cenafria on Jan 12, 2015 9:04:01 GMT -6
I defy the belief in the mystical "one take wonder". Even if the first take was good, there is still room for improvement! I've seen many first takes become the keeper. If the band is well rehearsed, and they are comfortable in the studio, it is more than feasible for the first take to actually be better than any subsequent takes. I'm talking about bands that come in to record after a 20 day tour or bands that have worked hard in the rehearsal room. I would say, in my experience, the better the musicianship, the higher the chances of a first take being the take. Of course, we might all have different ideas of what constitutes a better take : )
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Post by jimwilliams on Jan 12, 2015 11:11:56 GMT -6
Rewind time was a chance for the ears to take a short break, clear the head, think about what you heard.
Instant recall offers no breaks, no time to mull over the process or progress, a never ending train of sound. That can cause one to loose focus.
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Post by svart on Jan 12, 2015 13:58:32 GMT -6
I defy the belief in the mystical "one take wonder". Even if the first take was good, there is still room for improvement! I know of one guy who was as close to a one taker as I've ever known. A session guitarist. He could easily switch from style to style with the feeling and timing fully intact. it was unbelievable watching him work. He'd listen to the track to play to, maybe 3-4 times. First time he'd just listen and close his eyes and bob his head to the music. 2nd through 4th times he'd go through and play a bit during certain parts, mainly the catchy parts first, and then fill in the more straight parts. We'd track once, he'd either say yes or no to it and then we either did it again or did a double. He could double it exactly the same way, feeling, timing and everything, without even having to listen again. Boom. Done. While everyone else in the band took hours to days to do all their parts, he was done in about 2 hours for 6 songs and his playing still killed the rest of the band.. I've never met anyone so humble about playing at such a high level too. He'd get all bashful when folks were raving about his playing.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 12, 2015 14:07:06 GMT -6
Imagine a room full of people like that! That's what the Funk Brothers, the Nashville A-Team and the LA Wrecking Crew were. Retakes were for changes in the arrangement or key. After beginning my career recording the Funk Brothers, I was pretty shocked by how badly even the biggest name rock groups played with the exception of maybe one member of the group. I attribute this to the loss of live music gigs in our society. Yesterday's session players were the very best of people who had been playing several nights a week live beginning in high school and were so busy playing sessions by the time they graduated that they didn't bother with college.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 12, 2015 14:36:43 GMT -6
The darker side of waiting for the tape to rewind? Dr. Dre has said one of the reasons he left Death Row Records was seeing an Audio Engineer get pistol whipped for a tape taking too long to rewind. (I tried to find the quote/video to post but for some reason googling Dr. Dre and Beats kept coming up with articles on headphones and him being a billionaire ) The fact that a Dr. Dre quote came up right after Bob mentioned the LA Wrecking Crew is pure gold. When I read his post, all I could think of was the World Class Wreckin' Cru. Here's a bit of old school Dre for your enjoyment!
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Post by Calvin on Jan 12, 2015 21:05:56 GMT -6
I miss the "breather" that the tape rewind period provided. I even miss the sound of the tape rewinding. I also miss simply handling the tape (threading the machine, and so forth). Basically, I love tape, and I wish I was still working with it more frequently.
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Post by ben on Jan 14, 2015 17:34:52 GMT -6
The flip side of this is when an artist just about has it right, an immediate re-take can clinch it. Waiting too long can allow them to lose it.
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