|
|
Post by RicFoxx on Jan 6, 2015 8:49:09 GMT -6
Done on a Sony 24 track digital machine...tracked on Neve mixed on SSL. Modest mics (except for U47 on vocals.) Sounds really good. I can't be the only one that dislikes mushy flat mixes (overly saturated...linear???) In another thread a few heavy hitters were talking about how bad sounding SSL was and even Neve being wooly and mushy. And this is a early digital recorder?  Minimal processing also and it seems to have a large dynamic range. Has digital really moved forward or has cheap digital moved forward? One way or the other...I really enjoy the depth and clarity of the track. Here is the classic Tracks article from SOS: www.soundonsound.com/sos/may06/articles/classictracks_0506.htm |
|
|
|
Post by adogg4629 on Jan 6, 2015 15:33:08 GMT -6
Well done. Nice article.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 6, 2015 18:41:16 GMT -6
Pro Tools can sound fabulous with minimal processing provided you start with something fabulous!
|
|
|
|
Post by RicFoxx on Jan 6, 2015 19:03:23 GMT -6
Just to be clear...I didn't write this, it is a SOS article. I deleted the text and kept the SOS link. |
|
|
|
Post by donr on Jan 6, 2015 20:25:47 GMT -6
Pro Tools can sound fabulous with minimal processing provided you start with something fabulous! When I started making my own demos and recording, 30 odd yrs ago, I made some crappy analog recordings as well. But analog was more forgiving. : ) |
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Jan 6, 2015 20:39:35 GMT -6
this is no slight on how great the Direstraights are, I love them, but i cannot stand the sound of this record! songs are great, performances are great, i hate the sound, it's exactly what i can't stand about digital recordings, edgy and cold, and bass...what bass? JMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Jan 6, 2015 20:54:14 GMT -6
I haven't heard BIA for years.. but I LOOOOOOOOOVED the sound of Communique....
LOVED IT!!!!
cheers
Wiz
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Jan 6, 2015 21:06:22 GMT -6
I haven't heard BIA for years.. but I LOOOOOOOOOVED the sound of Communique.... LOVED IT!!!! cheers Wiz totally! listen to the bass tone on that record! |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,103 
|
Post by ericn on Jan 6, 2015 21:30:13 GMT -6
this is no slight on how great the Direstraights are, I love them, but i cannot stand the sound of this record! songs are great, performances are great, i hate the sound, it's exactly what i can't stand about digital recordings, edgy and cold, and bass...what bass? JMO. I think Direstraights great sonics I think Sultans of Swing! |
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Jan 7, 2015 10:56:54 GMT -6
Thanks for posting this Ric.
The biggest thing I hear is how deep, tall and wide the sound is. The synth sound in the beginning is so high. The guitars are so wide when the tune kicks in. This brings so much space for the vocal and perhaps the ability to hear depth of the reverb as well.
I don't know if it's the console or what, but the height, width and depth of this mix and the size of the vocal is why pro mixes sound better imo.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 7, 2015 16:38:21 GMT -6
A lot of it is that there was no undithered DSP involved. I've long suspected we need to know more about DSP engineering to use a DAW than one seems to need to know in order to get a job programming one.
|
|
|
|
Post by RicFoxx on Jan 7, 2015 18:10:11 GMT -6
What is undithered DSP?
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 7, 2015 21:48:48 GMT -6
Most DSP generates numbers having larger exponents than can be passed on to a different process or written to a file. Truncating that exponent causes crunchy sounding distortion that sounds like a chattering noise gate. The way to prevent the distortion is by adding a specific spectrum and level of noise to make the toggling of the bottom bit random so it sounds like hiss. This distortion accumulates and can't really be masked. Subjectively it actually masks low level information that a random bottom bit would preserve. This dithering process has a fair amount of computational overhead so many developers don't bother since using dither means fewer bells and whistles will be available. Naturally the normal answer to this is endless claims that you can't hear it. That's often true of a single process but real world mixes "in the box" involve a huge number of processes. Floating point math is a big help but at a minimum you want dither before anything hits the 24 bit fixed point input of a D to A chip.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimwilliams on Jan 8, 2015 9:55:00 GMT -6
I can't remember every mic, placement, patch and mix of any stuff I did 30 years ago. This reads like someone was walking though the session taking detailed notes. Seems a bit suspect to me as I can't remember what I had for dinner last week.
|
|
|
|
Post by RicFoxx on Jan 8, 2015 11:55:39 GMT -6
Must have not been a memorable dinner!
|
|
|
|
Post by adogg4629 on Jan 8, 2015 17:01:04 GMT -6
Just to be clear...I didn't write this, it is a SOS article. I deleted the text and kept the SOS link. I was more commenting that it was a nice find, but I'd be lying if the thought didn't cross my mind at least once that you may haver written it. LOL. |
|
|
|
Post by adogg4629 on Jan 8, 2015 17:21:13 GMT -6
Most DSP generates numbers having larger exponents than can be passed on to a different process or written to a file. Truncating that exponent causes crunchy sounding distortion that sounds like a chattering noise gate. The way to prevent the distortion is by adding a specific spectrum and level of noise to make the toggling of the bottom bit random so it sounds like hiss. This distortion accumulates and can't really be masked. Subjectively it actually masks low level information that a random bottom bit would preserve. This dithering process has a fair amount of computational overhead so many developers don't bother since using dither means fewer bells and whistles will be available. Naturally the normal answer to this is endless claims that you can't hear it. That's often true of a single process but real world mixes "in the box" involve a huge number of processes. Floating point math is a big help but at a minimum you want dither before anything hits the 24 bit fixed point input of a D to A chip. Any thread that forces me to go to Wikipedia is a good thread. Thanks Bob. AD |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,103
|
Post by ericn on Jan 9, 2015 13:40:03 GMT -6
I can't remember every mic, placement, patch and mix of any stuff I did 30 years ago. This reads like someone was walking though the session taking detailed notes. Seems a bit suspect to me as I can't remember what I had for dinner last week. I know of at least 5 of these articles where what is written and the notes I took during the session don't jive! Often it's as much politics as bad memory. |
|
|
|
Post by jimwilliams on Jan 11, 2015 11:54:56 GMT -6
5 articles and those don't jive? Those were "The Days of Lines and Noses", I suspect no one there really remembers much of anything like most 80's sessions. No matter, even if fictitious, it's entertaining.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 11, 2015 13:00:48 GMT -6
It was also common to see how far out you could get in a magazine interview and then watch all the posers applying it to their work.
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Jan 11, 2015 16:21:29 GMT -6
I get a kick out of all the bigwig engineers who talk about how they've moved entirely ITB while being interviewed with one of these behind them lol  |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,103
|
Post by ericn on Jan 11, 2015 16:28:02 GMT -6
I get a kick out of all the bigwig engineers who talk about how they've moved entirely ITB while being interviewed with one of these behind them lol View AttachmentI remember hearing about a guy who was makeing more booking his room and makeing more money doing video and photo shoots . |
|
|
|
Post by levon on Jan 12, 2015 5:59:01 GMT -6
I get a kick out of all the bigwig engineers who talk about how they've moved entirely ITB while being interviewed with one of these behind them lol Lol, a box is a box, even if it says SSL |
|
Minimal processing also and it seems to have a large dynamic range.
