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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 3, 2015 11:41:28 GMT -6
Gonna go pickup some of these. Was thinking about just covering them with felt or burlap without backing or frame. Will anything stick to roxul? i.e., can I glue the fabric to it or anything like that or am I gonna need backing?
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Post by baquin on Jan 3, 2015 12:18:30 GMT -6
Haven't really tried to glue fabric to a roxul sheet. But, have tried with succes to glue thin wood sheets to roxul. I applied a quick coating of Scotch Super 77 spray glue on roxul. After a minute, placed the wood and put some pressure on, it's quick so no hassle.
Fabric most likely be more difficult, because it's not rigid, but maybe with something pulling it on each side might do the trick...not so sure, to be honest. It's easier with a frame or backing.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 3, 2015 12:27:20 GMT -6
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Post by WKG on Jan 3, 2015 12:33:29 GMT -6
Only one way to find out. 
I'd be thinking it would be hard to get a smooth surface, like baquin said it'd be easier with a frame of some sort. That way you could glue around the edges without saturated the Roxul on the face. Also, I don't know much about the properties of spray on glue but I would think that anything that significantly changes the breathability of the Roxul may affect it's acoustic properties somewhat as well. If I was going to try without a frame I'd look at the Knauf Ecose Black Acoustic board, it would probably stay a bit more rigid. The Mixmastered guy has free shipping right now and a lot of options as well as DIY supplies. He'll build to spec for reasonable also. |
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Post by baquin on Jan 3, 2015 13:05:00 GMT -6
Only one way to find out.
I'd be thinking it would be hard to get a smooth surface, like baquin said it'd be easier with a frame of some sort. That way you could glue around the edges without saturated the Roxul on the face. Also, I don't know much about the properties of spray on glue but I would think that anything that significantly changes the breathability of the Roxul may affect it's acoustic properties somewhat as well. If I was going to try without a frame I'd look at the Knauf Ecose Black Acoustic board, it would probably stay a bit more rigid. The Mixmastered guy has free shipping right now and a lot of options as well as DIY supplies. He'll build to spec for reasonable also. Well, haven't thought about the glue and roxul, but it makes sense. How about using green glue? While it might dampen the roxul, it might work wonders as a floating floor or walls. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2015 13:20:16 GMT -6
Ah why bother ? The glue woukd only adhere to the top surface and could be pulled apart easily ?
Also wouldn't a sealed surface reduce the R's coefficent: defeating its purpose ?
Guess I am missing sonething here ?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 3, 2015 13:38:26 GMT -6
I was just talking about adhering the fabric to the safe n sound material. I'll just buy light 2x4 mdf at lowes as backing. Easy enough.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 3, 2015 14:17:52 GMT -6
I was just talking about adhering the fabric to the safe n sound material. I'll just buy light 2x4 mdf at lowes as backing. Easy enough. yeah, safe n sound is not rigid enough to stand on its own, or glue anything to, even rockboard is questionable there, owens 703 has best rigidity for stand alone and gluing, but only on the back edges as any glue on the surfaces closes the pores in both directions and diminish function. |
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Post by mulmany on Jan 3, 2015 14:21:48 GMT -6
If you use a spray adhesive only use it on the back of the panel. Lay the panel on the fabric then fold/cut the seams/corners, prep then spray the glue. The rotofast hangers work well.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2015 15:15:57 GMT -6
Remember if you go 5 inches deep even with 3-4 inches of R its still increases and lowers the absorbtion ie deeper mid band !
The roxal is semi ridgid and if you cut it snug it will compression fit in frame and you don't even need a back unless its for structural integrity but if you screw and glue your frames: they'll be plenty strong !
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 3, 2015 17:15:40 GMT -6
It will stick to the linings of your lungs so make sure it is covered appropriately!
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2015 17:19:47 GMT -6
roxul ? I thought it was inert ?
ventilate and be careful with dust ?
HEALTH AND SAFETY
A study showed that there were no increases in risk of onset cancer for users or workers for the production of rock wool. The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), has updated the previous Monograph and classification of 1987, concerning the health effects of various MMMF (Man-Made Mineral Fibers), excluding them from Group 2B (possibly carcinogenic).
Dust Control
Another important safety consideration when handling insulation is dust control. These recommended work practices will help you to use the products in a way that minimises transient itching of the skin.
How to reduce dust
1. Store the material to protect against damage, including humidity.
2. Unpack the material at the application site.
3. Cut the insulation on a flat surface. Use a sharp knife with serrated edge. Don’t use a saw. Unless you need to cut hard roof boards.
4. Open a door or open a window to ensure good ventilation.
5. Organize your workplace in a manner that makes mounting and fixing easy.
6. Cover open ventilation ducts to reduce particulate in the ducts.
7. In confined spaces with poor ventilation use protective goggles and a dust mask. Gloves and loose fitting, longsleeved, longlegged work clothes advised.
8. Keep your workplace clean. Prevent whirling dust. Use a vacuum cleaner, not a broom.
9. Don’t rub. Wash in cold water. Change clothes and wash on completing work.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2015 19:04:08 GMT -6
was up on real traps and saw this:
"When mounted in corners MiniTraps absorb very well to below 80 Hz, and are still effective (0.30) to as low as 40 Hz. One reason MiniTraps are so much more effective than other treatments is the air gap behind the panels. When mounted on a wall with a spacer, sound gets behind a MiniTrap so its rear surface can also absorb. This air gap increases absorption as much as fifty percent, and also extends absorption to lower frequencies when compared with flat wall mounting. When placed straddling a corner the absorption is even greater, especially at low frequencies. Not only because sound waves can get to the back of the trap, but also because low frequencies tend to focus in corners. "
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Post by WKG on Jan 3, 2015 20:01:00 GMT -6
I was just talking about adhering the fabric to the safe n sound material. I'll just buy light 2x4 mdf at lowes as backing. Easy enough.
A frame would probably be better as it will allow sound to pass through utilizing the air space behind the panel and attenuating the reflections before they come back into the space. Otherwise it would be the same as mounting it flat on the wall.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 3, 2015 20:45:40 GMT -6
was up on real traps and saw this: "When mounted in corners MiniTraps absorb very well to below 80 Hz, and are still effective (0.30) to as low as 40 Hz. One reason MiniTraps are so much more effective than other treatments is the air gap behind the panels. When mounted on a wall with a spacer, sound gets behind a MiniTrap so its rear surface can also absorb. This air gap increases absorption as much as fifty percent, and also extends absorption to lower frequencies when compared with flat wall mounting. When placed straddling a corner the absorption is even greater, especially at low frequencies. Not only because sound waves can get to the back of the trap, but also because low frequencies tend to focus in corners. " Just to clarify, this ^ is NOT un true, but it is misleading, example- if you take that same corner trap and stuff the backside air gap with insulation, it is MORE effective than a corner trap with an air gap, same applies to hanging on a wall, for instance- 5" of roxul is more effective than 3" of roxul with a 2" air gap. 3" of roxul with a 2" air gap is more effective than 3" of roxul flat on the wall. i hope that makes sense. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2015 20:52:38 GMT -6
we are saying the same thing, instead of putting a 2 or 3 inch absorber flush against the wall make the box 4-5 inches deep and for the same insulation amount you will get more absorption
mass means more energy absorption and to a lower frequency I say this in the context of an absorbent material.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 3, 2015 21:05:15 GMT -6
we are saying the same thing, instead of putting a 2 or 3 inch absorber flush against the wall make the box 4-5 inches deep and for the same insulation amount you will get more absorption mass means more energy absorption and to a lower frequency I say this in the context of an absorbent material. 5" of insulation is better than 3" with a 2" air gap. The idea of the gap is to hope that whatever passes through the insulation reflects back through the insulation a second time. The addition of 2 more inches of insulation will grab more, down lower and control room resonances better. So gaps are fine for limited thicknesses, thicker is always more absorptive, i was just making that clear, I may have missed something, but i did not get that from reading your post. |
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Post by svart on Jan 3, 2015 21:10:15 GMT -6
 Spray glue sticks just fine. Just cut your burlap so that it sticks around the edges like 2" and just spray the glue on the mineral wool board and the edge of the burlap. Allow to dry then stick them together. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 4, 2015 16:01:42 GMT -6
I ended up with safe n sound roxul...Like someone said above, it's certainly not as rigid. I bought backs and might tackle some of the project today.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 4, 2015 16:22:35 GMT -6
For that i'd build a simple frame your local HW store probably sells mdf black shelving and will rip it down to 4-6 inches for a buck a cut
You can cut it to length (2x4) easy enough and you habe one good side round edge prefinished nice fro front and flat 90 degree face on back: nice for wall
I use 1x2 pine strapping snd cut a 24 inch base mount and screw this into my wall, sit the panel on top of it (to take the wieght) and use 2 small l brackets on top ( one in frame top and one in wall to secure frame at top. I use drywall screws but counter sink the pine as it tends to split but the drywall bites and seats in the wall nicely.
I mount with a level and bob's your uncle !
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