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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 15:31:29 GMT -6
Was looking at some pics today and couldn't imagine having to turn my chair and adjust something out of the sweet spot. Does this annoy any of you outboard users?
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Post by wreck on Aug 14, 2013 19:18:32 GMT -6
That's a pretty good point. I barely have anything and half the time I even forget to turn it on. Now that I am getting into outboard gear, I'm not really liking it. Too much of a pain to try and read the writing on the knobs. I'm not in the right listening spot when tweaking. Starting to think I just need good mics, pres and converters and the rest is itb.
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Post by Ward on Aug 14, 2013 20:44:01 GMT -6
For the experienced engineer, this is not really much of an issue to have to deal with. We're used to it. Granted, it is a lot easier when you're doing everything on the console but if you're not using a console and just using a HUI (like a Digi C|24 for instance) then all your preamp, EQ and Comp adjustments are made just outside your sweet spot. But you adapt.
to take you through the normal practice of using outboard gear... it sort of goes like this...
The first step is gain staging your preamps, and it's true that at first this is a lot of trial and error and setting & checking...over and over again. When you get used to each preamp/strip you get the levels at optimum and then listen to how the source signal is impacting the overall sound. Perhaps you wish to drive it a bit harder? Make adjustments to the gain staging and end up at the correct overall level.
Next on your agenda is either dynamic or EQ control. Listening to the signal, are the dynamics too wide or will they be better recorded with more controlled dynamics? You've used the various kinds of compressor/limiters before and you know what kind of change in tonality they impart, in conjunction with how they react to program material and transients. Should this come next? Perhaps you need to tailor the sound with some EQ? Then it hits you: The best EQ is the right microphone and the right microphone placement. So, you go out to the source... but if that doesn't quite do it, like in the case of the kick or snare, or an acoustic instrument, you might try to use a small amount of EQ to notch out a troubling frequency (like 350hz in a kick or lower tom) and then see how it sounds in the sweet spot. Then you can evaluate your needs for dynamic control. Or maybe you wish to control dynamics first and then tailor the overall sound with EQ. Each option is valid and neither is absolutely correct 100% of the time.
This is the craft of our art.
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Post by Ward on Aug 14, 2013 20:45:26 GMT -6
P.S. I could write a book on gain-staging... perhaps I'll write a few paragraphs some time.
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Post by cenafria on Aug 15, 2013 5:31:52 GMT -6
When I'm in front of my rack of gear I can hear pretty well, actually. Any changes from the "sweet spot" my brain in compensating for I'm sure. Other engineers haven't complained so it must be ok. Also, I use the console a lot for the preamps and eq, not just for summing and mixing. Having used plugins, I'm surprised other engineers can get by using only plugins because of the ergonomic limitations, so go figure  |
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Post by LesC on Aug 15, 2013 7:20:52 GMT -6
P.S. I could write a book on gain-staging... perhaps I'll write a few paragraphs some time. I, for one, would appreciate that. It seems every time I read about gain-staging, I either learn something new or get reminded about something I have forgotten. Or perhaps it's all stuff I've forgotten, and my memory is so bad that I can't remember what I forgot. |
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Post by matt on Aug 15, 2013 7:36:08 GMT -6
P.S. I could write a book on gain-staging... perhaps I'll write a few paragraphs some time. I, for one, would appreciate that. I would too. I have a tendency to add gain until I start to get overs on the master bus, so I end up rebuilding the mix too often. Noob mistake, I guess. I have to get over the whole "everything needs to be louder than everything else" approach to mixing. |
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Post by svart on Aug 15, 2013 7:48:55 GMT -6
It doesn't bother me. I typically get out of the "sweet spot" willfully because sometimes you can hear things that aren't apparent in the sweet spot. Go stand in the corner. Is the bass obscenely loud and/or louder than a commercial CD when listened to in the same place? Do you hear phasing between side on the wide panned guitars as you move?
It's things like that. I also find that most stereo systems don't have a narrow "sweet spot" like you can get with studios, so if you mix and get a really narrow sweet spot, it's going to sound very different on a stereo system. I try to mix so that it's a wide as possible and sounds good even off axis.
Also, if your monitors have a very narrow sweet spot, then they probably have an issue with "beaming" frequencies. That's going to affect your frequency response too.
Also part 2, most folks sit way too close to their monitors. If you are closer than 4-5 ft, then move back. Let those sounds develop and mix in the air a bit. You'll get a much better overall view of the sound.
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Post by sozocaps on Aug 15, 2013 9:21:24 GMT -6
Love this quote "The best EQ is the right microphone and the right microphone placement." .... !!!
I like to record with almost NO eq if possible.
Also, I think guys like CLA have the compressors almost "pre setup" for the job. They have a snare and kick compressor chain, vocal compressor chain, mix bus chain that they start with for example.
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Post by svart on Aug 15, 2013 9:27:41 GMT -6
Also, I think guys like CLA have the compressors almost "pre setup" for the job. They have a snare and kick compressor chain, vocal compressor chain, mix bus chain that they start with for example. That's all part of having "their sound". It's not all about what type of gear you use. It's just as much about how you work and how you set things up as well. |
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Post by cenafria on Aug 15, 2013 10:04:55 GMT -6
Also part 2, most folks sit way too close to their monitors. If you are closer than 4-5 ft, then move back. Let those sounds develop and mix in the air a bit. You'll get a much better overall view of the sound. That's where you get a solid stereo image. And where the room mics start to give you depth and realism. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 15, 2013 10:29:35 GMT -6
Also part 2, most folks sit way too close to their monitors. If you are closer than 4-5 ft, then move back. Let those sounds develop and mix in the air a bit. You'll get a much better overall view of the sound. Very well said. Ideal monitoring position is an isosceles triangle. Each side is even and all points are at 60ยบ angles. For smaller monitors (5" or smaller drivers) a 5' triangle is pretty fair. For normal nearfield monitors, 6' to 7' is best. So, your monitors are 6' apart (center of driver dustcap to center of driver dustcap) and 6 feet from the center of your face in the listening position... and they are elevated to ear level (center of driver), facing you. Your midfields (if you are using them) should be about 2' to 4' outside of them and also form an isosceles triangle to the listening position. Mains are typically 12 to 16 feet apart. It depends on the size of them and the geometry of the room. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 10:38:04 GMT -6
I remember watching Michael Wagener's studio tour on youtube, he had a very clever set of little monitors near his preamps that seemed quite smart to me. I'd agree that plugins for most would be frustrating but I really only use VCC and Waves SSL Channel. I have a template with that on ever channel and as long as it's a channel strip style plugin I can work pretty easily.
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Post by wreck on Aug 16, 2013 8:27:18 GMT -6
I definitely get out of the sweet spot to check things once I think things are good, but when I am tweaking, I like to have my head where I am used to hearing the playback. Lack of experience or whatever, that's what I have to do. I don't really tweak much thought. I don't have any outboard compressors and I really don't feel the need to buy any. The only thing I have are a couple eqs and I rarely turn them on for tracking. If I do, it's to work on the kick just a bit or a slight touch on the vocal. I guess I am gravitating toward the get it right with the right mic camp.
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